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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think my flexible working request will not unreasonable?

237 replies

NameChangedOct · 10/10/2024 08:21

Hello! I returned from maternity leave 3 months ago. I’m full time, but had accrued a LOT of annual leave so have been using this to take every Friday off for the rest of the year, essentially working a 4 day week. From January I was hoping to request a permanent change, 4 days for 80% pay.

However, my manager is saying it’s really difficult for the team/business under my current working arrangement and may not be sustainable permanently. I do appreciate that the work I do comes in (with little notice) as tasks/mini-projects that take 2-3 days and are quite time sensitive. So usually I will start something on a Thursday and unable to finish it, I have to hand it over to a colleague (which I think is fine, only slightly less efficient, or if the colleague can’t get to it then it waits until Monday which delays the output beyond our usual times, but it’s hardly life or death). Everyone else on my team works full time, even those with young kids.

I’ve not put a formal request in but AIBU thinking the above is not a good enough reason for them to refuse this as a legal right as a parent.

i really love my job, colleagues and flexibility (I can WFH), but I also need a day off to spend with my little one.

OP posts:
WidowCranky · 11/10/2024 18:53

Firstly... flexible working requests aren't worth the paper they are written on if they dont want to do it as they'll always be a reason. However its interesting that they stated its an issue at the moment as thats holiday accrued so means they arnt sufficiently staffed. Holiday hours shouldn't be causing addittional stress if they are accounted for. Also if you are the only one in the team that can do the tasks then they havent organised the team correctly. I suspect you wont get anywhere but you can ask.

vickylou78 · 11/10/2024 18:52

I wonder if you asked for a Wednesday as a day off instead of a Friday it may be easier to manage the work so it doesn't drag over the weekend.

Laura95167 · 11/10/2024 18:43

I don't think yabu to ask, but I also think the business has enough reasons to decline the request. Maybe as a compromise you could ask if they're open to allowing you to go PT with a different day off? Or work 5 over 4 or 10 over 9?

Littletink1 · 11/10/2024 18:33

They have to look at your request but don't have to go ahead with it if it's not in the interests of the business. I always wonder though, why an employer would rather say no, knowing that employee could just go to another company so now instead of juggling things around they have to find a whole new employee which can take time and be more disruptive than just allowing the request. I will have this issue aftery mat leave and am already considering retraining for a different career.

Itwillbeallwhiteintheend · 11/10/2024 18:27

Could you request compressed hours? 36 hours over 4 days? Pretty much still FTE just not physically online for three days of the week.

user84843 · 11/10/2024 18:26

The law is changing soon OP making flexible working ‘the default’ hence I assume harder to deny. It might be worth speaking to someone from organisations such as pregnant then screwed to find out what is classed as a good enough reason.

I do find many employers for some reason still expect full time work to be completed by part time employees. Handing work over can often be because it should never have been given to you. What happens if your colleagues can’t finish something on a Friday I imagine it rolls over to Monday? Only you/your workplace can know how big of an impact that is if from Thursday the work is not completed. How have they managed since you have returned? I agree maybe request an alternative day?

I do find it sad how often even on Mumsnet we seem so anti flexible working. A lot of these comments are very tough s*. It is very hard to find part time work that works around childcare that actually pays well. Most people in these situations manage it from flexible working agreements in companies they have previously worked in before children. Full time work with children is very hard and for many not financially worth while. To quote ‘we are not having it all we are doing it all.’

I full support women and men for whatever reason trying to find a work life balance.

LlynTegid · 11/10/2024 18:26

I've been on four days a week for several years. Monday is a non-working day for me, has been widely accepted and respected. Did so mainly as easier to travel back from family on a Monday, and as noted, no Sunday evening dread.

Welshmonster · 11/10/2024 18:23

Start taking Mondays off instead so you can finish up stuff yourself on Friday. No Sunday dread!
find a better system and then put your request in. New rules came in this April I think.
get a lawyer or union person to help you write it.

unless you are in life or death situation is a big deal if you delay an action. Why does colleague have to pick up slack. Just tell customer it will take longer.

Sleepytiredyawn · 11/10/2024 18:22

Having a day off during the week is quite nice, it breaks the week up. I love being off on a Wednesday, I always looked forward to seeing my son as I barely saw him Monday and Tuesday.

Makingachoice · 11/10/2024 18:19

You have the right legally to request. Your work has the right to legally decline but they must have a solid reason. They have a pretty strong one to be fair.

What they should be open to is having a conversation about alternative solutions - such as suggested - having a Wednesday off. Or 2 afternoons or 2 mornings. A job share. Or changing your role.

pineapplesundae · 11/10/2024 18:19

You’re coworkers want to spend time with their children to. What makes your situation unique?

RebeccaRedhat · 11/10/2024 18:17

Could a different day off be considered? Eg Wednesday? I understand wanting a longer weekend but I know a few people who took weds off and it worked well. At least things aren't left over the weekend and you're back to pick it up on Thursday if no one else has had a chance?

ahemfem · 10/10/2024 15:24

MouseMama · 10/10/2024 13:34

Sorry while I want to be supportive of working mums (being one myself!) I don’t think it’s unreasonable in the circumstances for them to say this doesn’t work for them.

I have found previously it works better and is more palatable to everyone to take a Wednesday off. If work comes in on Tuesday and you can do it by Thursday COB that’s usually fine. If work comes in on a Thursday afternoon and it won’t even be looked at til Monday morning then that’s often a problem. It shouldn’t be substantively different but peoples attitudes are different to a day off midweek rather than having a long weekend.

Yes I had a Wednesday off and it worked really well

ahemfem · 10/10/2024 15:23

Offer to have a different day off?
I'm amazed they agreed to you having every Friday off what if someone else wants it off

QuickJadeUser · 10/10/2024 15:05

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 10/10/2024 12:23

But your lack of imagination about how different working patterns might impact on different companies wouldn't actually hold much sway in an employment tribunal. If the company can demonstrate that the OP's proposed working pattern would have a detrimental impact on their business, your inevitably uninformed opinion on whether or not they're managing the business effectively is pretty irrelevant.

That's not the point I'm making. I more or less agree that the OP won't get this granted, as our employment law doesn't protect staff against this sort of simmering incompetency.

These arguments were all made when people were campaigning for Saturdays off as a right, you realise. "Oh but what if something comes up on Friday and it can't be seen until Monday?"

If management is competent, assigns work according employee working patterns and promises based on capacity and resourcing, none of these objections are a problem.

Again: I cannot think up a concrete example of a well run business where losing 8 manhours a week would cripple a team. If you have one, do enlighten me.

chickenlettuceunderbacon · 10/10/2024 13:42

So usually I will start something on a Thursday and unable to finish it, I have to hand it over to a colleague (which I think is fine, only slightly less efficient, or if the colleague can’t get to it then it waits until Monday which delays the output beyond our usual times, but it’s hardly life or death).

Can't decide if you're entitled, ridiculous or selfish.

For your colleagues sake, not to mention your employer's, find a new job.

user1471538283 · 10/10/2024 13:35

I was the person picking up equivalent to a day extra a week, every school holiday, every Christmas and I was resentful. My case was worse because the part time colleague never did any work during her hours. Guess which one was treated badly? Not her.

It is reasonable to not allow you the flexibility because it is impacting on the team and the clients. And if your colleagues have enough, then what? It's only been allowed so far because they have to let you use leave.

You could try for a 9 day fortnight?

MouseMama · 10/10/2024 13:34

Sorry while I want to be supportive of working mums (being one myself!) I don’t think it’s unreasonable in the circumstances for them to say this doesn’t work for them.

I have found previously it works better and is more palatable to everyone to take a Wednesday off. If work comes in on Tuesday and you can do it by Thursday COB that’s usually fine. If work comes in on a Thursday afternoon and it won’t even be looked at til Monday morning then that’s often a problem. It shouldn’t be substantively different but peoples attitudes are different to a day off midweek rather than having a long weekend.

angellinaballerina7 · 10/10/2024 13:17

NameChangedOct · 10/10/2024 08:31

Hmmmm okay, thanks for the replies. I was under the impression that the business reason had to be really strong. A one day delay on the tasks I pick up isn’t the end of the world. It wouldn’t be the same client each time and most are understanding. Delays happen for other reasons too - sickness, too much work at once, it’s not a new thing…

Delays can happen due to other reasons, of course, but it sounds like they’ve tried to adjust to you working 80% of the time and (in its current model) it’s not working because you require someone else to pick up your work load which isn’t always possible and therefore creates delays that they consider to be avoidable.

If your request just went in, I’d ask for a meeting with your manager and have a plan for how delays can be reduced/mitigated by the type of project or client you’re assigned. It shouldn’t all hang on someone else being able to pick up the work. If you can show you’ve proactively considered how to improve the situation, I think you stand a better chance. Good luck!

HollaHolla · 10/10/2024 13:14

IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle · 10/10/2024 13:08

So usually I will start something on a Thursday and unable to finish it, I have to hand it over to a colleague (which I think is fine,

I'm sure you think it's fine. Does your colleague?

This is an excellent point. I was that colleague, for 5 years, in my last job. There were 3 of us doing similar roles/cover for each other. One worked Mon-Thurs, and the other a 9 day fortnight, with the day off being 'floating'.... You can see where this is going, can't you. I'd say at least once per month, I was the only one of us working on a Friday. I got all of the shit, picked up all of the last minute Friday shit which always kicked off (often not even in areas I knew anything about.) It got to the point that I struggled to be able to get long weekends off, or more than a week holiday. I was so fed up and resentful of my colleagues - and my terrible manager (which is a whole other story.)
Just because YOU think it's working, doesn't mean everyone else isn't simmering with hate for the impact your pattern has on them.

I'd sit down with your manager and say you'd like to drop to 0.8FTE, and what would work. You might find they have some creative solutions. I've done that for members of my team in the past. Annualised/monthly hours, for example - or a jobshare between 3 people, who were all P/T, to cover 2 roles.
Good luck

GivingitToGod · 10/10/2024 13:14

NameChangedOct · 10/10/2024 08:31

Hmmmm okay, thanks for the replies. I was under the impression that the business reason had to be really strong. A one day delay on the tasks I pick up isn’t the end of the world. It wouldn’t be the same client each time and most are understanding. Delays happen for other reasons too - sickness, too much work at once, it’s not a new thing…

I get u OP and no-one is indispensable.
Would a day off other than a Fri work 4 the company? If it did, that would be a compromise. I always worked FT when my child was a baby (single parent) and really wish I could have worked PT. I don't know much about employment law but I would have thought your employer has a duty to consider/accommodate PT hours (mine does).

IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle · 10/10/2024 13:08

So usually I will start something on a Thursday and unable to finish it, I have to hand it over to a colleague (which I think is fine,

I'm sure you think it's fine. Does your colleague?

MetalGearSystem · 10/10/2024 13:08

While your desire for flexible working arrangements is understandable, especially as a parent, it’s important to also consider the broader business needs and operational challenges. Here are a few points that may help explain why your manager might find it difficult to accommodate your request:

Impact on Workflow Continuity

  • Task Handover Issues: You mentioned that your work often involves projects or tasks that are time-sensitive and take 2-3 days to complete. In situations where you hand these tasks over to colleagues or leave them until Monday, it creates gaps in the workflow. Even if it’s only “slightly less efficient” from your point of view, these delays could cumulatively slow down the team’s output, affecting the business’s ability to meet deadlines.
  • Client or Stakeholder Expectations: Depending on the nature of the business, external stakeholders or clients may have certain expectations about response times and project completion. If tasks are delayed due to the gaps created by your absence on Fridays, this could reflect poorly on the team as a whole, even if the delays are relatively minor.

Fairness to Colleagues

  • Added Burden: Your current arrangement often requires other team members to pick up tasks in your absence. While it may seem manageable, this can create extra work or interruptions in their schedules. Over time, this redistribution of work may lead to frustration, especially since the rest of your colleagues are working full time, including those with similar family commitments.
  • Team Dynamics: It’s important to remember that office morale and team cohesion can be impacted if certain team members feel they are carrying an unequal share of the workload. While your request is based on family needs, others in the team might have personal commitments too, and accommodating one person’s request might lead to more requests or feelings of inequity.

Legal Rights vs. Business Needs

  • Not an Automatic Right: While parents do have the legal right to request flexible working arrangements, it’s not guaranteed that these requests will be approved. Employers can refuse requests if they can demonstrate that it would have a detrimental effect on business operations, such as a negative impact on performance, inability to meet customer demand, or additional costs.
  • Business Sustainability: You acknowledged that your current arrangement has been difficult for the team. If this is the case, then moving to a permanent 4-day week might continue to strain the team or create inefficiencies that hinder business productivity.
HappyTwo · 10/10/2024 13:07

This is a reverse right?

Neurodiversitydoctor · 10/10/2024 12:45

Peonies12 · 10/10/2024 08:37

You have no more “legal right” as a parent than anyone else requesting flexible working. It sounds like a reasonable business reason for saying no. Is there another day off which would work better? Or could you do compressed hours working 9 days a fortnight instead, and your partner do the same but alternate the weeks so one of you is off the same day each week. I’d also be cautious about reducing your hours because everyone I know who’s done that, they end up working the same amount for less pay.

This, I'd stay WFH on Fridays. Worst day to have off IMO as childcare is quieter and things are less hetic. A midweek day often has less impact IME