My son 2 can be cheeky and I think nursery are overreacting

I'm a mum of two ND young adults and can remember back to the terrible twos with them. None of what you are describing are indicators of being autistic and at that age you wouldn't find many professionals who would be ready to diagnose it. There are waiting lists that are at least three years. There are multiple stages before you are put on the list, to make sure they are seeing kids who are more likely to get a diagnosis. I think that it's appropriate to see how he develops. Kids can act out to get attention and sometimes you can solve it by reminding them once that we don't do/say that and then ignoring them until they stop.

I do have concerns about a nursery where there's lots of negative feedback to many parents and especially with a child coming home saying something that she's obviously heard a staff member say, that's totally inappropriate.

@sluoa I worked in nursery for many years. I am not from the UK but part of my training was to study early and middle child development.

Everything you have said about the nursery staff tells me that they do not know or understand child development. They have very unreasonable expectations of your child for his age and stage of development. Personally I would be looking for a new nursery.

A toddler room (2-3year olds) typically have multiples of the same toys because at this age they are generally unable to share or understand the concept of sharing. As children get older they gradually learn the concept of sharing. They have to learn the concept of turn taking first. They also have to learn the concept of ownership (what belongs to me, what belongs to other people).

I just want to copy and paste a summary of what is normal development for a two year old:

https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/healthyliving/child-development-6-two-to-three-years

Summary

• The most important thing to remember is that your two or three year old is still a baby.
• Temper tantrums are common in this age group.
• They may play with other children for a short time, but aren't yet capable of true sharing.
• By two, many children are naming lots of things and, by the end of this year, most are saying short sentences.

I think you're right OP. The behaviour you describe is not at all unusual for a two and a half year old in my experience.

My daughter was a terrible snatcher (I had to give chase to return things on a few occasions) and never listens. She got bitten a few times last year and the nursery said the unnamed biter was frustrated he couldn’t get her to share (she has an iron grip so stronger than normal toddlers).

We did lots of work on the sharing, huge praise when she shares and she has improved ten fold! She has just turned 3 and still has days when she is tired that she finds sharing difficult but she is mostly really good at it and will offer other kids a turn (with some prompting). They are growing and learning, it is too early to know for sure. There could be a chance my daughter has ADHD or Auditory Processing Disorder (I wonder if I do) but her nursery were very nice about it and said some kids just find sharing harder so we have to work with her on it.

My friend always says (and I think she’s right) that it is hard for kids to take stuff in when adults are standing over them giving out you have to crouch down to their level and speak softly. I think my daughter’s nursery are really good at that - I’ve seen them with kids having melt downs and they are brilliant!

My son was exactly as you described.
at that age, he too was bright, head strong and physically busy. He grew into himself with no SEN. He’s still bright, head strong and physically busy but acts age appropriately in terms of behaviour and I now know that the qualities that were in him even at a very young age, will one day serve him very well.

Your son is two. I wouldn’t be pushing for assessments at this stage especially as you aren’t worried.

Not true. With their parents yes but with other adults even the terrible ones show some restraint or atleast reacts when told off. Some needs more reinforcement than others. I would turn the question around and ask them how they are dealing with his behaviour. Is an adult always present ? Most conflicts can be avoided or atleast dealt with quickly without escalating but it takes adult presence on the floor and not in the staff room chatting. Don't want to bash nursery staff but I've seen excellent staff and some who just treated it as any job without implication or interest in the children...

How many children do you have? If it's one then you got lucky. 99% of 2years give not one damn about boundaries

But the behaviour is absolutely normal.

I have worked with many many nursery aged children (still do) and have a 3 yr dgs...a lively one .
I think it sounds like a nursery problem rather than an SEN one tbh... sometimes staff mixes make for a negative mind set (especially if the teacher in charge is negative) and children become the scapegoats.
Yes some 2,3 yr olds are well behaved, share nicely, never rude. SOME. Many more are testing the boundaries, throw tantrums, hit out, are rude... because they have toddler brains! Most gradually improve, it's the ones that don't, even with good handling, that are likely to have some SEN...and 2.5 is too early to judge unless there are very clear signs.

As long as you are teaching good manners and reinforcing what's ok and what's not, I'd smile and say 'I'll keep an eye on it'...and also keep an eye on the general attitude towards him from the staff, and towards the kids in general.

He sounds bright and a little bit naughty :)

I teach in a school nursery, so older kids. (3-4) We do not enjoy conversations with parents when we have to bring up their child's poor behaviour. The staff are not flagging this up passively or lightly. They are telling you his behaviour warrants monitoring or investigation. It's either lack of boundaries or ND. I see it all the time in a professional capacity. And the pps' dismissing your son's behaviour are not helping him.

Oh my! I'm not sure this would even come close to naughty. It's just normal 2 year old behaviour.

My nieces and nephews were nightmares from 2-3. One has just turned two and it's like a switch has flipped. That doesn't mean he's ND!! They're pushing their boundaries, learning and it's totally normal.

I don’t understand why you’d question the nursery workers? They’ve seen hundreds of 2 yr-olds in their time and know what’s within normal boundaries and what isn’t. All you have to compare him with is your other child…
As pp said, he’s either naughty because he’s not being given proper boundaries or he’s ND. Either way the staff thought it appropriate to raise it to you. Listen to them.

Pragmatically, I don't think it particularly matters whether you agree with nursery or not. They are telling you they see a problem and can decide they no longer have a place for him. Equally, you can decide the nursery isn't the best fit and move him.

It's hard. He's only 2.5 yo. But like you said he's defiant and an escape artist. You just have him and his sister to watch, they probably have a much bigger ratio (like 1:5). At the end of the day they have to raise his behaviour with you. If he escapes, hurts another child etc it's a much bigger deal for them in terms of liability.

Ah the terrible twos. I remember my daughter, a very bright girl, would go absolutely hysterical if we flushed the loo as she wanted to do it. At playgroup she would do the same if they started rolling up the big playmat without her. I think you are wise to wait. There were things that both my perfectly neurotypical children did as very young children which would have convinced me they had issues had all of the social media been available.

It would be useful to know if they refer a lot of children from that nursery but obviously you're not going to know that. I don't know, if professionals think there may be an issue then I'd probably least consider it, they must be seeing something concerning in his behaviour. Also having worked in nurseries for years I can tell you that not all 2 year olds are like that, I'd say it's a minority of them.

I will add that to echo some of the bits @gmgnts said I think staffs’ attitude and the team culture plays a huge huge role. My DS went to nursery and for a year the staff kept saying how cute and shy he was - I was shocked because he’s not shy at all!! It became a bit of a running joke that I wouldn’t admit that he was shy!! Then I changed nurseries and the change was enormous. He was really really happy in himself from day one and the staff constantly tell me how confident and chatty he is! The first nursery was a long standing place with a team who’ve been there a long time and I honestly think they just had a really negative culture amongst themselves. The second nursery was a new opening and so a totally new team, and they were so positive and cohesive at the new start. I had hesitated about changing and couldn’t believe the difference!

Sounds like they're overreacting. My DS is 2y5m and sounds very similar. In the last few weeks he's gone from being mostly lovely with occasional tantrums to defiant and stubborn. Lots of saying no, ignoring me, doing things he knows are wrong, not doing things I've asked him to. All completely normal as far as I'm concerned whilst incredibly infuriating.

@MyLeftFootIsBlue

You can only go onto the list if you are referred by nursery / school or the doctor.

Gosh I think he sounds totally normal?! I’ve not really met a toddler who is not defiant..? I can’t see why that would be a cause for concern. I think they’re jumping the gun and you are right it’s very early. Is it actually causing any problems? Obviously a boisterous child is hard work but beyond that? I’d trust your instincts. X

I was called into school when my dd just started reception (she was only 4 in the Aug). They thought I should get her hearing checked out as she can't hear them shout her once playtime is finished.

She was fine just a little shite!!

Plenty of 2yo are just badly behaved - nothing necessarily wrong with them!
I would steer clear of calling his behaviour ‘being cheeky’ though. It’s naughty.

I remember as a student being sent to a nursery to do a day's observation. What I observed in that nursery was that the staff were really, really negative. The most used word was NO, shouted sharply. They characterised most of the children as troublesome and naughty and saw themselves as having to do battle against them. I had very little experience of young children then, but I was really upset at the way they were being treated. What I'm trying to say is that some nurseries may be badly managed and not able to bring out the best in young children if the management staff don't have a positive, child-friendly attitude. I do agree that at two many children find sharing very difficult and can be 'rude'. It's not called the 'terrible twos' for nothing! I think you're right to hang on if he is reaching his milestones in good time.

He’s 2.
2 year olds don’t know what being rude is, they do however respond to a reaction so better not to give one.