can SS or CAHMS in effect force a parent to resign...

I’m so sorry you and your DD went through this. It’s absolutely typical NHS financial mismanagement, as you say - falling over themselves to save £5 now, even though doing so will inevitably cost them £50 down the line. Madness.

OP your DD needs to be hospitalised if she needs to be on suicide watch 24/7. PP’s advice to document, document, document is spot on. Make sure they know you’re doing it. Mention the safeguarding aspects for your DD and other children. Be that very noisy, squeaky wheel and don’t be intimidated.

@RosesAndHellebores perhaps it's different in different trusts. It's not happened in the regions I've worked in, and have worked with a lot of young people with serious mental health issues. It's been really difficult to manage on general wards.

I am a year ahead of you and sending lots of love.

Initially I did have to leave work and claim benefits as I couldn't leave DC and staying up all day and all night wrecked my health. As well as the direct supervision of DC, a lot of time was taken up with appointments and meetings often at short notice and usually smack bang in the middle of the day, so you have to take hours off work, rather than being able to come in late or leave early.

It also took time to find out what the services were and listen to all the reasons why you don't meet the criteria and they won't help you.

Nobody will help with looking after DC as they are too scared and don't want to take on the risk. I felt ashamed to talk about it. Felt like a shit parent.

I exhausted every avenue I could think of, including my MP. Any services are very limited and don't have staff and can only offer six visits. There is no proper ongoing support.

In addition to this I am now, for the first time in my life, in debt, behind on the mortgage and buying groceries on the credit card, with little hope of improvement in the short term.

When things settled down a bit I was able to get a work from home job. It's tricky though as I have one eye on the computer and one eye on DC so nothing is done properly. We are adjusting to our new normal and finding our own way forward.

I hope this will encourage you, that it's the system that is broken, not you. There are so many people with no lived experience who insist there must be some "help" and want you to waste your time on wild goose chases to find it.

You will find a way to get through it. This too will pass. Sending hugs xx

@wimberry I'm sorry bit you are wrong, if a young person is admitted via A&E as a suicide risk hospital put in place a 1:1 MH nurse. I know this for a fact.

Do not ask me how one bit of the NHS has the money for this for up to three nights to facilitate an emergency CAMHS review (that can take longer than 48 hours) when CAMHS have repeatedly refused support due to lack of resources when 8-12 therapy sessions could have avoided the admission.

The system is a complete arse and the people in charge need a red hot poker where the sun doesn't shine. The mismanagement of resources is absolutely scandalous.

You can't be expected to provide 24/7 supervision OP. If they were that greater risk then they need to be admitted. My ds has a safety plan by cahms after an overdose. Realistically I can't keep to all that they recommend (no internet being one), but we try. But despite a deliberate overdose and continuing suicidal idealisation they have not put consent supervision in his safety plan. At the end of the day you can only do so much.

I remember a case years ago now where a mother had her daughter admitted to hospital and did a runner she was so desperate for the authorities to take notice. It was in the national press.

OP does your profession or industry body have any charities, or charities linked to your DCs’ conditions that you could turn to for funding in the short term? It’s not a solution but may cover income for a time if you have to take unpaid leave. Some charities also provide advice but it sounds like you know what’s needed it’s just not being provided

@2boyzNosleep sorry but that isn't true. If OPs child was admitted to a general children's ward, they'd expect a parent to be on the ward with them. Children's wards aren't 1:1 supervision. MH wards are only available to children who meet very, very specific criteria including that there is treatment for their condition that they will receive whilst there (this is enshrined in mental health legislation).
Again not saying it's right, but there's no point OP using their energy to fight for a service that doesn't exist right now.

@needavice888 when dd was ill ten years ago, CAMHS were utterly hopeless. The only way anything at all was put in place by them was by me summarising every consultation in writing, and sending copies to my MP and the CEO of the MH Trust. They lie, they misuse resources and you must keep an audit trail of absolutely everything.

However much of a "c" you think your MP is, their involvement does make them sit up.

A sentence such as, my other dc have the following needs, I cannot provide for them without an income and your expectations will mean I will.lose my job. My daughter needs clinical support and there is an expectation that your Trust will ensure this is put in place. Your failure to provide adequate care over the last 11 years has led to the present situation:

Example with dates
Example with dates
Example with dates.

I regret to inform you that I am exhausted and cannot provide the 24/7 care you expect. This has to be facilitated by yiur Trust because I need to sleep to. If yiu cannot facilitate adequate clinical care and there are consequences for my daughter's continued well being I shall hold your Trust entirely responsible.

It's shit. I appreciate it's shit. But yiu must document everything, make sure they know you are documenting it, involve your MP and possibly seek some advocacy support from someone like yiur Local Healthwatch.

The squeaky wheel who keeps a record to ensure things are less opaque will help ensure support and a clinical plan are put in place. The more you formally record, the more trouble there will be for the Trust when it goes tips up.

Also request a conversation regarding yiur dd's clinical support with a qualified adolescent psychiatrist. In writing and on rinse and repeat.

Good luck.

I had years long crisis w no help from SS or CAMHS. Violent teen child harming me & family.

SS tried to take “decision making” away, in court. Can’t recall the legal name of this. I had to hire a lawyer.
They were using it to force me to stop complaining, begging … to shut me up. Child has diagnosis but they kept blaming my “parenting style” for his behavior … try setting boundaries while getting hit in face or when young daughter being beaten by 85 kg male.
They did nothing to help us. Good luck.

IMO.

An excolleague of mine took time off work for exactly this.

She went to very part time (1 or 2 afyernoons a week when her DC was in a therapy session and then built her hours back up as her daughters wellbeing improved.

I don't think there's a service to watch over people who are suicidal unless they are sectioned. It's crap there's no support, but our kids are our responsibility :(.

I hope your DC's mental health improves and stays well.

Sending a hug, I personally could go to zero income and keep the roof over our heads, so I get your concern x.

OP, they can put things in place, but it sounds like they aren't listening to you.

If your DC is that bad and you cannot safely provide 24/7 care, then your DC needs to be in a hospital. Doesn't need to be a mental health hospital,

It's just expected the parent can step up to whatever is needed.

My teenager is anorexic, was put on a 24/7 monitor and refeeding programme. At home. Starting there and then. I wasn't even asked if that's something I could facilitate.

We've been doing the CAMHS circuit for 11 years now, two years with the eating disorder team. There's NOTHING out there.

Does it have to be you specifically that stays with them?
Just this week on my local fb group someone has advertised their services as a sitting service for older children that have needs. I didn’t even know that was a thing? Can SS help with that at all?
Fundamentally you’ll need to emphasise that you can’t cope and if they don’t help
you all your children will be in care (which will cost them even more). I’m sorry you’re in this shit situation.

How many times has DC tried?

Real help comes rather farther down the process than makes sense.

@GuestFeatu not intending to derail the thread - I'm also in SS. You may have worked in better managed authorities than I have, in my experience SS have a lot of good staff but are too overloaded and the work suffers. Im not criticizing individual workers but the system rarely supports them to practice as well as they could do.

The situation with the lack of support for mental health has always been bad, but is so much worse with the increased demand since covid.

Oh I’m so sorry so firstly wanted to say that I hope you are taking care of yourself as much as is possible. My son tried to take his own life four times and was hospitalised each time. I missed a fair bit of work due to this. On attempt no 4 he had a MHAA but it was decided not to section him but to look for a residential facility. I was signed off by my GP at that point but was lucky my work paid in full for the first 12 weeks.
when the residential placement came up, we viewed it and both hated it. I told him he could stay at home. At that point I knew I had to return to work. I ended up saying to him that I couldn’t keep him safe anymore. It doesn’t matter how little time you leave them, if they want to carry it through then they will. So I said I couldn’t stop him. That I loved him and he was wanted and needed.
fortunately for us he turned a corner. We withdrew him from school and that really helped.
So, can you see what your sickness pay is at work? If it’s doable get signed off?

I had to stop working when my oldest was 15 (sole parent and penniless after that) as no support whatsoever.

I'm sure there are normal people who work for CAMHS. We never met one.

Camhs are shit.

If you are in London take child to Maudsley Hospital - they have a 24 hour emergency mental health clinic. They arranged for a then teenager I know to be immediately admitted after CAMhS and other hospitals just sent them home and added to a long waiting list.

Hi,

Of course they can’t force you to resign. The safety plan is a recommendation, as would be a recommendation for an inpatient or residential placement when a family has done everything they can and no longer feel able to manage at home.

it is a shared responsibility across services. CAMHS are there to provide psychological support /medication/ safety and crisis planning.They may recommend an inpatient stay if you are having to keep taking your child to A&E. Spcial care would be providing carer/ respite support in the home. Although 24hr crisis watch sounds to me like grounds for inpatient admission, I havent come across anyone on that care plan before. At the point of needing inpatient stay it no longer would be sitting under generic CAMHs teams as it would be classed as tier 4 (CAMHS only supports to tier 3). Social care are there to provide the support needed to keep someone at home and manage any transitions to other living placements / carer support.

the reason CAMhS are not providing ongoing therapy is probably because of the level of need- therapy isn’t offered as a first line treatment when people are in active crisis unless the person is able and wants to engage with it. Often in crisis they just can’t, and then it gets really hard because things have gone too far to provide meaningful therapy support.