can SS or CAHMS in effect force a parent to resign...

I'm.sorry you are in this position but you need to put your child first. If anything happened you would never forgive yourself. Do you have any family that could step in to help watch them?

You really need to talk to solicitors with expertise in these issues, e.g Irwin Mitchell or Simpson Millar. You can almost certainly get legal aid in your children's names. It's amazing how SS manage to find solutions when faced with having to explain themselves to a judge.

Have you raised with the mental health trust’s PALS team? They would be be able to support you to have conversations with more senior staff who could review the care plan and talk to you about alternative options.

It’s not on ss this is for camhs to deal with as they are supposed to be mh specialist

This sounds like a very stressful situation for you OP, and your DC. Apologies because I haven’t read the whole thread but wanted to ask whether you’d spoken to your DC’s lead practitioner and if your family is receiving support from either the duty and/or crisis team? Does your DC have an up to date risk assessment and safety plan? If you feel that needs updating a call to duty would highlight your concerns and should lead to an updated risk assessment which might suggest an inpatient service or an alternative plan. In our local CAMHS the advice if you feel your child is at immediate risk to self and/or others is to attend A&E where they should be assessed by staff from the CAMHS liaison/crisis team. Wishing you and your DC the very best.

I am so sorry that you are experiencing this @needavice888 . I had to take long term sick leave from my work to keep my son (s) safe. At one time I was his 1:1 support/warden when he was on a children's ward in our local general hospital. He was there because there were no beds for him at the CAMHS unit. So we had a very disturbed 16 year old on a ward with poorly babies and toddlers. Indeed, the staff told me that at one time, they had three seriously at risk older teens on the ward.

I am not going to steal the thread, but the demands of our children (both teens at the time) and the lack of effective services meant we had to separate the family so dad looked after one son and mum (me) looked after the other. I went to stay with a relative, but my son's behaviour put them at risk - it did, however, speed up the rehoming process!.

My situation was a bit extreme, and happened nearly a decade ago. However, services for adolescents with serious mental health issues and complex needs is hopelessly inadequate.

Hi, been through this. My daughter did end up getting admitted to a Tier 4 mental health Unit for 6 weeks for assessment after A+E, children ward stay, RAIST intervention etc. Not a long stay as the aim of the unit was to assess and get her back in the community as soon as possible. It wasn't perfect and I hate to say it, has made my daughter worse which I'm hoping is temporary, but now she is in the system so to speak. The social worker there advised us to apply for DLA for her as you can apply for mental health needs. I don't know if you are aware that you can apply. It's based on needs rather than diagnosis, and the fact that you are providing care beyond what a child of that age would usually need, such as night care. You can then get extra universal credit which could help. We got help with the application from the welfare rights service from the council. It took ages to come through mind you. There is a really good facebook page called Parenting Mental Health which is very supportive. Being in this position is so hard. It's impossible to watch your child 24/7 and remove all dangerous things from your house while trying to live a normal life as possible.

If you haven't been through it you would not believe CAMHS would not provide support for an actively suicidal child (my daughter was 12). I took mine to A&E twice and the second time I called the social services safeguarding team to report the crisis team who wanted to send her home again when we knew we could not keep her safe, and all of a sudden they were able to admit her and provide 24/7 1:1 supervision for several days and a complex case review after all. I did not make any friends there but I think it saved her life. It's not a long-term solution but it might get you through the initial crisis. She is well and thriving now but I remember how awful it was and I am so sorry you are going through it.

I’m really sorry you’re going through this. Newbold hope charity is a good source of support too.

Also if you look on Facebook your area will have a parent carer forum (called different things in different areas- but Google name of area parent carer forum and it will come up). This is a group of parents who have children and young people with SEND and mental health needs and they will know key contacts in your area and if any charities etc exist that will be able to help you.

Basically no. If school risk assess as unsafe to recieve on site, default responsibility for education devolves to the LA and usually eotas - education other than at school.

The LA will move heaven and earth not to fund this, but it is in school's interest to clarify where the duty lies, so meet your senco and ask them to find out more.

Some areas admit young people without a diagnosis of autism or a learning disability onto their DSR. You can Google your local authority’s local offer and it should have details of the DSR and how to get a referral. In some places you can self refer and get a key worker. The key workers job is to avoid inappropriate admission to hospital so they can access packages of care to support the family at home. What’s available in your area is down to how the NHS and LA have set up the local system unfortunately. I’ve got everything crossed there’s something useful in your area.

How about your local councillors?

I’m sorry if this riles anyone, but if you’re not getting help elsewhere, you would not be unreasonable IMO to present at A&E. It’s what the NHS themselves suggest if you feel you cannot keep yourself or someone else safe

https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/mental-health-services/where-to-get-urgent-help-for-mental-health/

I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I have some experience with a family member and it’s utterly diabolical how alone you’re left with it, and how willing the system is to shunt responsibility onto families for MH emergencies. With that said, they wouldn’t ask you to manage it yourself if it was a heart attack or an aneurism, so treat it with that kind of urgency- it’s a health emergency, just not physical- and get the most immediate help you can.

Family member is CAMHS says you can't stop someone who wants to kill themselves from doing it. So as their family you will do a damn sight better than the state.

My DH has an employee who WFH because their dd is suicidal. Is WFH an option?

@sam0207 .

Yes, CAMHS are very very good at infantilising and being reductive. I refused to be addressed as "mum" in that patronising way they have and insisted my name was used. You know, because I was a human being too.

After a crisis to be fair CAMHS, with the help of our MP, did put some clinical care in place and the ADHD service does now support dd. She did recover and is doing very well in her mid twenties. Fortunately BUPA picked up much of the psychiatric intervention and we paid for the ADHD assessment and endless counselling. I think the total bill was about £18,000 with some day patient interventions.

I honestly don't know what the fuck people do if they can't pay but I do know that the system is excuse ridden, unfit for purpose and one has metaphorically to chain oneself.to the railings to get anywhere. I did spend about 4 years kicking up a stink because we had choices and I didn't care if I upset the people in charge.

@Wimberry

It does happen. I have to look after MH patients in this situation myself, as a nurse on a general children's ward, as a place of safety, on a regular basis. Many parents do not stay the night so a nurse is assigned 1:1 care.

It's shit, it's not the right place, it's a huge strain and stressful. The ward staff are paeds trained not MH trained.

This usually happens in a situation like OP, where they cannot be safely looked after at home. It's not a permanent answer, but usually a discharge planning meeting is triggered from it. However, I'm some cases, it does take the parents refusing to take them home for the necessary action to be put in place.

I've not known a child/teen be discharged home when they need 24/7 1:1 suicide watch. If they can't be discharged because they cannot be watched, then they stay on the general ward. At this point, my ward put shifts out for MH nurses to do 1:1 or 2:1.

I appreciate some areas & Trusts do things differently.

My child also has anorexia. Luckily she was seen quickly and I only had to take time off to give her lunch and then take her back to school as she couldn't eat around others. Some children can't go to school but I don't really know what people expect chams to do because there isn't spaces for all these kids to go into wards for refeeding. I hear of horrible stories of A&E sending kids home and they have to be on deaths door to be admitted. I thank god we never got to that. But I am really thankful for Chams and the therapy sessions we have and 18 months on things are much better. I think I have been lucky we caught it early and she was very only 11 they said it's easier to treat when they are younger. I do hear a lot of chams bashing and I think people have unrealistic expections. We are given advice and therapy but it will always be down to us parents to watch and refeed our child. I wish your child well in their recovery x it's a horrible illness.

@needavice888

Is a referral to Great Ormond Street a possibility for you?

https://www.gosh.nhs.uk/wards-and-departments/departments/clinical-specialties/department-child-and-adolescent-mental-health-dcamh/mildred-creak-unit-mcu/referrals-mildred-creak-unit/

Yes,
I was a 100% solo parent with no family support. My son was 13/14/15 at the time and at that point had a dx of:
Emerging Borderline Personality Disorder,
OCD,
Severe Separation Anxiety/Attachment Disorder,
Suicidal Ideation,
School Based Anxiety/Refusal
Self Harm Addiction,
Anorexia/Bulimia
and
C-PTSD.
He was not in a good way and was frequently found sitting on the platform at the local station, swinging his legs over the edge or sitting on the ledge of the local multi story car park rocking back and forth. Multiple chemical OD's, many, many incidences of severe (A&E) self harm. At one point he had an actual (kinda realistic) plan on how to murder me and get away with it. His friends were so worried they called the local police station to do a welfare check on me to make sure I was alive.

I was bullied, harassed, libelled and blamed for every instance by SS and CAMHS. I begged, pleaded and sobbed to the C-CAT, (the supposed out of hours CAMHS - the ones who visit A&E, only during 10am-6pm and are as useless as chocolate teapots) to find him a place in a psychiatric unit.

I was told that he was "acting up for attention", that I should go on a parenting course and that if I really cared about my son I would give up work to give him some stability.

He had had a difficult early childhood (DV and CSA) but because of that I made sure he had continual stability, if I wasn't at work I was by his side.I was raising him on a single income and if I'd resigned from my job I wouldn't have been able to claim benefits as I would have been intentionally unemployed.

I was absolutely vilified by SS and CAMHS for asking for help and trying to come up with a solution that worked.

The end came in two ways. Firstly a very switched on female Police Officer sectioned him inside A&E (so he had to stay there) after the head of A&E, head of CAMHS and the C-CAT team had all said they wouldn't take responsiility for him after TEN days on a childrens ward, waiting for a psych bed. Chief Honcho Psychiatrist TOLD my son he was not suicidal SEVEN minutes before he ran from the hospital and the only reason he failed at throwing himself under a fast moving lorry on an A road was the fact that I caught him by the edge of his hoodie. He was finally admitted to a unit.

Once there I was told I had to visit at least every other day (separation anxiety/attachment disorder). It was a 6 hour round trip on public transport including a half hour taxi ride. All while working. If I'd gone off sick with stress, I would only have received SSP - so unable to afford the transport costs (no, there is no financial help).

Thank God we were offered redundancy the same week. The payout meant I could financially stay at home with him when he was released.
I stayed at home, glued to my sons side for 18 months. I didn't go out for coffee with friends, if he didn't sleep, I didn't sleep and when I did it was with him on a mattress on the floor in my room. When the £ ran out I was able to claim UC and Carers. I was piss poor for a long time but I kept him alive by sheer will.

CAMHS still didn't think this was enough and told me I should co-sleep with him to keep him safe.

Eventually he stopped co-operating with CAMHS and refused to go.

I will say, he's 22 now. Eventually also got a dx of ASD and ADHD. He's stable, loving and has had a partner for the last 5 years. He still has difficulties, Agrophobia is the latest issue but he's not suicidal and hasn't SH in probably about 5 years. BPD raises its ugly head now and again and he can get a bit obsessional (usually around PS4 games) but he's doing really well.

@needavice888

This sounds like a very difficult situation, OP.

I'm not sure how old the child is.

Is boarding in a school for children with special educational needs an option?

It's clearly not something which will snap into place in days or even weeks, but, if possible, it would be a comfort to you to know that things would get better.

How old is your child?

Same here. I was told I had to stay home and re feed my DD. There was no alternative. I had to take 8 weeks unpaid leave.

Ok it's good she actually tried.

Lots more teens make detailed plans than attempt their plans.

What were her plans? Use this info to reduce risks. Eg remove any pills/medications from the house. Remove any alcohol. Remove ropes/cords/belts etc. remove sharp knives or lock them up. Remove poisonous cleaning products - lock away anything you absolutely need. Remove razors.

Beware of local bridges/jumping off points. Keep her away from those.

Take the lock off the bathroom door.

If you remove most of the opportunity a lot of the risk is also removed.

As for work, yes you may have to give this up. You may have to go through the homeless system. But thousands do and end up with more secure housing than they had so it could be worth it long term. Financially she should get DLA and you should get carers allowance for looking after her.

Children's psychiatric wards tend to have more anorexic kids than suicidal ones. Suicide risk will be expected to be managed in the community by primary care. If she makes a specific threat of suicide you phone an ambulance and go to a&e. You keep doing this every time. Every incident needs to be followed up with the gp.

Get a loan & pay for a private asd assessment. That may open more support.

Focus on improving her day to day wellbeing. Do happy tasks. Make sure her diet has lots of wholesome food. Make sure she gets exercise outside every day.

There is a way out of this but most of the work will have to come from her and you.