To think getting less than 50% of your pay is crazy?

Did you mean to say 1.5 million illegal immigrants? You actually wrote 1.5 illegal immigrants in your earlier post and this one. That's why I said that it wasn't a lot.

I didn’t say it was al the fault of
migrants I said it was a factor. And you don’t think that having 1.5 illegal immigrants in a population of around 65 million is a lot? Well there’s no point arguing with someone who denies reality.

1.5 illegal immigrants isn't very many. Is the other half of that immigrant legal?

Anyway, what a surprise to find that it's all the fault of those pesky illegal immigrants.

Student fees do not any where near cover costs of training people to do certain jobs e.g. medicine. I note some very entitled doctors posting here. I despair - what horrible people. Much more senior doctor posting here. What sort of a society do you want to live in? I will be speaking to my medical school about the entry critieria. And those people who say they do not use public services! LMFAO! And that people on benefits are scroungers and lower income people need to pay more tax! GET A GRIP on your Faragey views!
Pay off your subsidised education, save for your pension - as much as possible into one of the best schemes available, pay your fucking taxes and be grateful you are not at a food bank or worried about basic bills. Most people have not had the opportunities you have had. Yes I know you work harder than some people, with a lot more responsibility than many, as did I (for much less, before 108 hour working weeks became illegal) but I am grateful that I have always had a a good salary, a career structure, an interesting, useful job and a good pension coming to me. That is gold dust.

I have. And yes it sounds like a wonderful place to live. If anyone can work out a way to develop a Finnish system here I’d be interested. But I don’t think you can do that if you have 1.5 illegal and unregistered immigrants, a welfare system that takes no account of immigration status and has encouraged dependency for over 70 years, a language that had been appropriated by most of the world and happen to be situated only 21 miles from France.

Eh? They’re way beyond capacity. Who are all those people in the cells? Lost tourists?

And prison for things that we can freely do in this country.

Whereas in this country, we barely jail anyone.

Indeed @Reugny. Forget about the tax burdens, just get yourself to a country with a lot of oil about it, be wealthy enough to buy your way out of trouble or ill health and stick a post-it on your mirror with a reminder not to be gay, a woman or come from South Asia.

Talking of getting your hands on some oil. I wonder if things would’ve been different here if we had gone for a sovereign wealth fund like the Norwegians did. Was that thought to be a bit socialist-adjacent at the time?

Their income tax and social security (equivalent to NIC) is also higher at lower income levels than the UK. So people on lower incomes pay comparatively more tax/SS in Finland than they would on the same income in the UK!

And prison for things that we can freely do in this country.

Go and ask the Finnish.

Btw they are very good at ensuring there are no tax loopholes plus their VAT rate is higher and they have less exemptions.

You can kind of understand why people opt for Dubai. No tax, plenty of sunshine and cheap staff.

How’s that working out for you? You don’t create a prosperous equal society by taxing everyone to the hilt.

It isn’t obvious. It is a logical fallacy.

I'm not sure which government would raise taxes on lower and middle earners but leave higher rate tax payers alone?

A Conservative government would never do this as a) they don't believe in raising income taxes and b) this would affect lots of their supporters.

A Labour government wouldn't do this as if they decided to raise income taxes they wouldn't target low and middle earners, they would target higher earners.

Higher rate tax payers aren't on extremely high salaries necessarily though. And it's always said in threads on here. Fair share is the key here, as has been said, it's lower and middle earners that have low taxes.

I've not seen anyone on here saying that higher earners don't work as hard as people on lower wages. I've seen the opposite, where higher earners say (like you are doing) that lower earners are just jealous and higher earners earn more through sheer hard work. It is then pointed out that lots of people work really hard at low paid but essential jobs e.g. carers.

I am sure that many people on extremely high salaries work in very high stress environments with lots of responsibility and will have studied hard to gain qualifications for their job roles. However, the rewards are significant and not all high level jobs make a useful contribution to society.

There are people with more money than they or their families could spend in a lifetime but still begrudge paying their fair share.

No, socialists believe that more equal societies are generally more prosperous with better social cohesion that less equal societies. Less equal societies have less stable economies.

Rich people have far more opportunities than low and average earners to avoid paying tax, e.g. through trusts, and off-shore tax havens.

Hear hear.

One of the reasons UK public services are f--ked is because the lower and middle earners do not pay enough tax. Higher earners are already taxed to the limit with dangerous tax cliff edges (particularly at 100K) and removal of means tested benefits that disincentivise moving up the salary scale, whilst having to pay double/triple for private medical and schools because despite all of their high earnings, public services still remain poor.

Is it any wonder the UK economy is stagnant and cannot pull itself out of its rut. The private sector engines for growth are being stifled and will be even more under Labour. Cannot blame high earners for thinking of greener pastures.

Haha yes.

People do things without the profit motive all the time. The profit motive is only one in a very wide range of motivations for doing something. If someone is becoming a doctor only because they want to make good money, they tend to not be a doctor for very long (saw one influencer whose leaving the profession after a couple years to become a management consultant and make more money for less stress, so it does happen). Same as people who become teachers for the relative job security.

Great post.

Yeah I heard some are on 12 PAs and I was advised that was the maximum activity I could do. I myself do 10.75. However a lot of trusts are in terrible deficit and some have even put a hold on waiting list work.

Lots of people are too blinded by jealously and resentment that if someone earns more than they do they are incapable of critically thinking about the wider implications. People on here also assume higher earners (over £100k, not exceptionally high for most countries) don't work as hard as people on lower wages which is laughable- clueless.

@Aduvetday

Nail on the head there. It's the lower income people who aren't paying enough and/or claiming too much in benefits. As you say, higher wage earners already suffer a relatively high tax burden compared to their peers in other countries.

The problem is with tax - we compare - it’s our LOWER and MIDDLE earners who have low taxes. The higher earners have some of the highest comparatively. There is no where to go with this tax base anymore. They are paying record high taxes. The IMF and HMRC now are warning about this. HMRC are now saying discussed CGT rises will result in a NET LOSS of tax revenue as people will simply move.

Posters on here have been saying this for ages. It’s already happening. We are at a tipping point of what higher earners will tolerate. They are taxed highly compared to peers in other countries. Other fiscal bodies have been saying this for a while. Even HMRC have now jumped in and said projected tax rises will result in a net loss.

The off you fuck brigade never had the strongest critical thinking skills. That’s what official bodies are now saying is and will happen. Compared to other countries where higher earners are taxed similarly and see a decent public service provision, lower and middle earners don’t pay enough. The welfare system is also overly generous in comparison too. So before people start shouting too loudly, I’d think carefully about the next logical step for any government.