To feel rubbish about this - breastfeeding groups

That is still Bf for 6 months! That’s an amazing achievement - and would certainly deserve one of those certificates! :) not that you need one.

Pumping is super hard!

Telling someone they won’t be able to express much (which doesn’t even make sense and plenty of women are able to exclusively express) before they’ve even started isn’t helping someone’s mental health. Why would you kick someone when they are down and set them up to fail before they’ve even started. Talk about being pessimistic.

Im sorry but one child doesn’t make evidence. We know the benefits of breastfeeding/risks of not from population studies. It’s not that it’s only children’s health but women’s too. And saying things like you lost weight quickly are irrelevant because plenty of women who Bf also loose weight due to the Bf burning calories and plenty of them are out walking and not in the house all day 🙈 your experience doesn’t dictate everyone else’s. Not everyone finds it hell for a few weeks.

We should be supporting women not telling them not to bother if it’s their choice.

Just to add, I support breastfeeding mums, I was one. It was a wonderful experience, I am sad that I didn't get the same for my second and it's still raw for me. But I support breastfeeding mothers, if someone told them to stop feeding in public I'd be the first stick up for them. I'd say well done you that's great if it was brought up in conversation. I'd make sure they were comfortable and happy when nursing. I'm super proud of my friends who've breastfed, but I wouldn't attend a breastfeeding group to clap for them and watch their certificate celebration and I wouldn't want that forced on me at my weekly baby group.

This particular scenario is insensitive of the group leader, this is a professional who should have just waited till the next BF group. Making everyone clap, honestly, wtf!

Because while breastfeeding is nutritionally beneficial it HAS to be in the context of someone's whole life and its not worth a mentally unwell mum etc

I agree with this. Part of the problem is the messaging, from both sides, is problematic. I don’t agree with ‘breast is best’ nor do I agree with the exceptionally twee ‘fed is best’ (feeding your baby is kind of the bare minimum you should be doing)

I think that, substance for substance, breastmilk
is better than formula milk. I don’t know by how much, or how much of a difference it makes in the long run but I do believe that to be true.
However, it doesn’t necessarily follow that breastfeeding is better than formula feeding. There are a myriad of reasons why. A baby fed with formula is better than a starving baby that can’t get any BM for example.

For me, breast was best. And yes, it was bloody hard in the beginning. But my circumstances matched it and once we did establish it, it was one of my favourite parts of being a mother. This is not necessarily the case for everyone.

No way to put that in a punchy three word slogan though is there?

Why do you think? Because the mental health and wellbeing of a new mum matters way more than breastfeeding!! It was obvious that trying to get him to bf would be nothing less than a battle which would be difficult for both of us and, quite frankly, very damaging.

Instead, he got a few ounces of expressed milk each day in the early weeks, we had a relaxing and easy time bottle feeding, and I got a good amount of sleep and was a very happy new mum after three years of infertility.

Why on earth would I think that struggling on with bf when very experienced midwives and HV and our GP encouraged me to bottle feed would be a good idea?

It would not have been. Like some women who do go for it, the first few weeks would have been hell. And now I can see the outcome of bottle feeding in my 24 year old son, knowing that he was actually no more susceptible to the usual nursery bugs than friends’ and relatives’ babies who were bf, and has entered adulthood fit and healthy, then the evidence before my eyes is that the advantages of breastfeeding are massively overstated.

I also lost weight quicker than my bf friends after birth - because I got plenty of sleep and was out walking every day for two hours with the pram because he was in a good bottle routine. I wasn’t stuck in the house cluster feeding. I was happy and healthy, as was baby.

If bf works, then great - it’s free and less effort than preparing bottles, and it’s what nature intended, after all. But if it’s difficult and mums are stressed, then pack it in and bottle feed. Express if you can, but above all, know that baby will be fine, and you will not feel that you’re not feeding properly when you have your baby in your arms and he’s looking at you all through the feed.

I think people who are prone to be pushy and over opinionated will act like that however they decide to feed to be honest.

I mix fed for about 4 months until he started bottle refusing, from then I just bf, so I got both sets of comments...

Some in the breastfeeding groups would pressure me to drop the formula feeds, getting really emotive and evangelical about it and it made me reluctant to go back to those classes.

But I also got awful comments about breastfeeding - feed in a corner, you're triggering the other mums, this is why your baby isn't sleeping, he needs more than you're giving him (he was growing absolutely fine, he just fed little and often at first, which is normal) You're being a martyr, you're stopping the dad from bonding, but also don't you know bf doesn't mean you'll have a stronger bond 🤷 Oh and my absolute favourite from my mil, but don't you just feel like a milking cow?? 🙄

To bring this back to the original point of the thread, I still wouldn't really have wanted a certificate and people to clap 🤣 And I'm sensitive about feeding around others because I know it's a really emotive topic. But yeah, saying bf mums don't get judged, don't get awful comments thrown at them and everyone is so supportive of breastfeeding over ff just isn't true at all.

YANBU this is insensitive. I BF my first and it was nice when the health visitor at weigh ins said well done I have to admit, but that was private, or in the BF group fine but not the general group. I tried with my second, 4 months of hour long feeds because we needed shields, she had laryngomalacia and couldn't breathe if latched correctly. I stopped doing that and exclusively expressed milk till 6 months. I introduced formula at 6 months so I could store enough milk for her to have one bottle a day till she was 1 and then I stopped pumping at 8 months when I had enough stored due to mental health decline. This little celebration would have internally broken me back then and I technically gave her BM till she was 6 months that wasn't what they were celebrating. I tried so hard!

I would consider messaging this women privately and saying could she not do that in the baby group due to the reasons you stated!

It should have been done at the specific group. They have separated them and left a gap for a reason.

Except it was my first I could have written this post. Tbh I just wouldn't have gone back to that group because it would no longer have felt safe.

that doesn’t mean other mums have to not receive certificates/never mention BFing/never feed at the baby group!

The issue is specifically with the certificates and co-opted applause from one person. Why are you making this leap to never talking about BFing or never feeding - no one has said this.

As another poster said, conversations about BF and all baby things form organically and naturally in mum and baby groups anyway, that's to be expected.

Yes I dont think she's always right but you can look into the studies on breastfeeding yourself if you're interested. The fact that the immunity claim isn't replicated when you use clean sterilised bottles is just shocking imo. Everyone I know quotes that breastfeeding boosts immunity - but the research doesn't show that

This! FFS when will the madness of feeding a baby the way the mum chooses/has to ever stop? There is so much pressure put on mothers already without judgement on how people choose to feed their children.

I can guarantee children in 18 years time will be shoving McDonalds/Greggs/Pizza Hut down their throats or living on super noodles. Shock horror some may even eat takeaway. Give the full FF/BF a bloody break for goodness sake.

OP what that person did today was wrong and there is nothing to justify giving a stupid certificate out for managing to feed a child.

As has been pointed out multiple times in this thread, not wanting to be co-opted into impromptu rounds of applause that no bf mum even asked for is nothing like expecting mums not to bf at all, or talk about it.

Nobody in this thread has even got close to saying there shouldn't be breastfeeding at the baby group. OP even confirmed this for herself after the first couple of times this was claimed. It's a strange leap people are making.

I take issue with quoting an economist who has no scientific or medical training, who was unable to BF so is hardly objective, and monetised this by writing a book as a credible source on the health benefits of BF.

But given out in that group by mistake as they’d been forgotten earlier. These are mums that spend time together - and they can’t be happy for other mums’ achievements? I used to sit there while other mums talked about all kinds of things that my DC couldn’t do or didn’t have. Sometimes it made me feel a bit sad, sometimes a bit envious, but that was my problem not theirs, and I recognised it as such.

And no, FF mums don’t always support BF mums. All the nasty comments I received about BF were from FF mums. They made me feel very insecure as a young mum, and even threatened to affect my breastfeeding. It’s a good thing to BF. Breast is best. It’s ok to say that while understanding that some women aren’t able to breastfeed. If they’d spent the whole session doing some kind of mad cheerleading or 50 min compulsory videos about breastfeeding, you’d have a point. It was a few certificates given out to some mums in the group.

Mums will always feel guilt, worry and upset. Child 8 months and no teeth while friends child has 2 teeth at 6 months? 9 month old can swim while your 18 month old can’t? 5 month old can crawl while your 7 month old can’t? Let’s not talk about anything because it will upset someone!

If someone has tried and failed to BF, then it’s completely understandable that they’re over-sensitive in relation to this, but that doesn’t mean other mums have to not receive certificates/never mention BFing/never feed at the baby group!

No, obviously not. But there’s something about the way they relay the breastfeeding message and how they overlook the mums health (and sometimes the baby’s health) that doesn’t sit right. The treatment, care and support for new mums needs to be massively improved rather than guilt tripping women.

Yes, in this example. But not in general, no. I breastfeed twin toddlers now. I had my own experience of breastfeeding trauma. I breastfed/feed happily in public. I've been criticised for it because you can see a bit more of me tandem feeding than breastfeeding a solo baby. And i tell these people to go fuck themselves if they even look at me wrong. But a postpartum mixed group of mothers with unknown baggage do not need to have people congratulated for breastfeeding around them, in their safe space. If I, frazzled, combination feeding my babies, barely making it out of the house, ended up having to clap breastfeeding mothers outside of the breastfeeding group, I'd have gone home and cried. And I speak as a breastfeeding mother who was eventually lucky enough to attend the greatest breastfeeding group that ever existed. (Which incidentally did not hand out certificates!)

OP, honestly please don't feel like this, formula is great for babies.

Incidentally my DD was FF and out of our solely BF NCT group was first to walk, first to talk, first to say sentences, first to count, first to start spelling out letters and phonics (she's 20 months so that's as far as she's got with her reading, but she can read basic things). She's also been very healthy so far.

Lots of the BF evidence is quite shaky. Read Emily Oster's book - did you know for example that the "breastfeeding boosts immunity" fact that the NHS states is based on studies from developing countries where they didn't have adequate sanitation for bottles. So the FF babies got sicker.

They're replicated the studies with sterilised bottles and formula, and they've found no immunity boosting for the BF babies. Ditto if you factor out the parents' intelligence, there's no link between how you feed your baby and their intelligence, or numerous other things you see quoted.

I'm not saying BF isn't great if you can do it - but it really means nothing if you can't.

Why should you get a round of applause for feeding your baby? Bizarre

I understand your feelings, I genuinely do. My birth didn't go to plan or to hope after a lot of prep and for a while I really struggled with that.
However, I never felt offended or slighted or put down when my friends spoke of their births that did and the prep they put into it. At the end of the day I knew our experiences had nothing to do with each other, and their positive experiences had nothing to do with or made my experience more or less negative, and I was more than happy to be happy for them.
I think we need to be responsible for our own reactions to other people's experiences when they aren't directly to do with us. If it was a weekly round of applause for then it would seem much more intentional and exclusionary to me but it really doesn't sound like it is that

FF mums support BF mums of course
I don't think that's true... not all of them. look at all the comments on this thread alone!

The UK has one of the lowest rates of bf though... so while I understand sometimes it can sound like people are banging on about it - there clearly is need for it to be said. I was pressured massively towards formula from before I even gave birth. There's a lot of myths about bf that can stop women from continuing that are based in nutrition. So I do think it's something that should be able to be said as a neutral fact with no judgement attached and each mum left to make their own decision on what is the right choice for them and their family. Because while breastfeeding is nutritionally beneficial it HAS to be in the context of someone's whole life and its not worth a mentally unwell mum etc.

The fact that when it's said someone immediately will come along to say its been said too much is why the pp is saying it should be allowed to be said.

Do people ever stop saying that though? Christ

To be fair, it’s one of the very few times I went. I never bothered again after that.

Ah well that’s not anything I ever encountered with my 3 (all shit sleepers incidentally!). There was loads of discussion at baby groups etc about how well other people’s babies were sleeping.