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Original poster

Christmas time off

162 replies

Girlinblue · 08/10/2024 14:40

This will be my second Christmas in this job. I work in a team of 5 and we are closed for the bank holidays but other than that there has to be at least 2 people in. Last year I worked Christmas Eve and the days between Xmas and new year. so was hoping that I would have it off this year because surely the fairest way to do this is to take it in turns each year?

Christmas time off has been talked about a few times because we just have to decide between us who is working when. It doesn’t get allocated for us. A couple of the women that I work with have talked about having Xmas off again because they have kids and have things to sort out. I said yes but I don’t really want to work it again because I did it last year and you both were off, so it’s not very fair if the same people are getting it off every time. They are saying that the people with kids should take priority. But just because I don’t have kids doesn’t mean I don’t also have things to prepare and things/traditions of my own. I want to spend time with my family and make plans etc just as much as they do.

I was thinking of bringing it up in a meeting to my manager to say how it needs to be split fairly. Myself and my other child free colleague also deserve to have the time off and our Christmas isn’t any less valuable to those with kids. i know some people don’t care about Christmas and some people do think it’s just for kids. But for me it’s not, I have a big family that I rarely get to see throughout the year and Christmas is the time that I get to see them and spend time with them.

Would I be unreasonable to bring this up further and insist that this should be split fairly each year? How is the best way to do it without causing unnecessary drama?

OP posts:
Gazelda · 08/10/2024 17:53

YANBU OP. And I'd be interested to know if the manager usually takes time off over Christmas.

Ttcpph · 08/10/2024 17:51

You are absolutely right to be angry! Surely it's discrimination against childless people to not allow them Christmas off.

your Christmas is not any less important that theirs.

what about people who are desperate to have children but can't? It's a right kick in the teeth.

totally unfair to just assume those with children get Christmas off.

100% stand your ground on this one or you'll be working every Christmas guaranteed.

LlynTegid · 08/10/2024 17:50

I read you will be raising it on Thursday, hope you get a satisfactory outcome.

My opinion is that those who worked the previous Christmas should be first in the queue to have extra days off this year.

Ewock · 08/10/2024 17:50

You are 100% right. I have chn but don't thunk for one minute that gives me or my dh more right to time off. It must be allocated fairly. Those that worked last xmas etc get this one off and so forth.
You have family as and things you want to do as well.
Christmas is not just for children. I hate the attitude of some parents that it is

ilovesooty · 08/10/2024 17:49

Girlinblue · 08/10/2024 17:37

Thanks for all of your replies. I’m glad to see that the majority of people don’t think I’m being unreasonable. A colleague from another team today was shocked that we don’t yet have our Christmas AL sorted out because it was done a couple of weeks ago on their team. They get sent a rota out. Which then prompted a conversation in my team. One of the women who is expecting it off (who also had it off last year) said if she gets told she has to work she’s calling in sick. I’m going to bring it up to my manager on Thursday when we are back in the office

I hope your manager gets their finger out, does their job and sorts out a fair rota. Will you be telling them what your colleague said?

Teeshs · 08/10/2024 17:49

OP, absolutely no way should you tolerate that.
It needs to be fairly done by rota.
The threat to ring in sick needs repeating, even unattributed.
I would start job hunting on that basis if that is the way they intend treating you.

BeeDavis · 08/10/2024 17:47

MarkWithaC · 08/10/2024 14:44

Absolutely not. This makes me so angry.
Apart from anything else, what if these colleagues of yours said 'people with kids should take priority' to someone who desperately wants kids but, for whatever reason, can't? (I'm assuming from your post that this is not your situation but I'm so sorry if it is).
I'm child-free by choice but can still see how offensive this is.
The only fair way to do it is by yearly rota, and I'd say that to your manager.

I’ve always thought this, it’s so insensitive.

BeeDavis · 08/10/2024 17:45

They can go bollocks, I have kids and don’t think I should have time off over anyone who doesn’t. I used to work with people that had the same attitude but luckily they were never pandered to and it was done in a fair way. I’m lucky in my current job as I usually book the week before off as no one is bothered and then I just work inbetween as I WFH so I can pretty much toss it off.

It needs to be fair for everyone, do not back down on this. I hope you can get it sorted.

BESTAUNTB · 08/10/2024 17:45

Are you happy to disclose your job title?

Unless you’re something like firefighters or doctors (I’m assuming not, given you have the bank hols off) I’d agree with your colleague who would just call in sick if it weren’t sorted fairly.

Your manager sounds a bit pathetic. S/he will need to intervene if there is no agreement.

fitzwilliamdarcy · 08/10/2024 17:43

Wtfdude · 08/10/2024 17:28

I watched you last hear around it. Hoe is it going this year? Are you planning to work or take one more year off for all that years you worked them?

Show quote history

So, last year the parent who was rota’d on called in sick. She’s now insisting that last year was her year on and she won’t be doing this year.

If I’m rota’d on I’ll do it. It not and a parent is rota’d on then they’ll probably start up with guilt-tripping me but I have no patience anymore and I won’t be talked into it. They were all dreadful with me during those 7 years and I don’t have any interest in helping them out.

Original poster
Girlinblue · 08/10/2024 17:37

Thanks for all of your replies. I’m glad to see that the majority of people don’t think I’m being unreasonable. A colleague from another team today was shocked that we don’t yet have our Christmas AL sorted out because it was done a couple of weeks ago on their team. They get sent a rota out. Which then prompted a conversation in my team. One of the women who is expecting it off (who also had it off last year) said if she gets told she has to work she’s calling in sick. I’m going to bring it up to my manager on Thursday when we are back in the office

OP posts:
Wtfdude · 08/10/2024 17:33

Nogaxeh · 08/10/2024 15:42

I dunno. I just kinda feel that children are, even in a small way, a collective responsibility for society as a whole. "It takes a village to raise a child," sort of thing. That's why we have things like social services and state-funded education.

Working over Christmas doesn't seem like that big a deal as something to help out those with children.

It only seems to be "it takes avillage" as long as village is quiet and obedient sadly.

I grew up with the "village" aka community around who cared. That also meant reprimanding kids even if they weren't yours as well aa keeping an eye in public and helping kids if needed. It didn't mean childcare issues sorting unless emergencies. It's still going where I grew up.

They way some people on MN talk about the village is more of just one way thing. Help and shush. Quite sad and entitled

Wtfdude · 08/10/2024 17:28

fitzwilliamdarcy · 08/10/2024 14:53

Raise it. Otherwise you end up like me, when I worked 7 of them on the trot because the parents in the team got comfortable with having favours done and would threaten HR if they got a sniff of being rota'd on.

I finally put my foot down and it caused an unholy row (involving HR) but I got it off. It's only fair, as you say, and you're not responsible for your colleagues' children.

I watched you last hear around it. Hoe is it going this year? Are you planning to work or take one more year off for all that years you worked them?

UnionRep · 08/10/2024 17:17

Well I can tell you that having children is NOT a reason for getting priority leave. It must be fair and equitable and if someone had the time off last year then they should not get it this year. But it's up to management to sort this out. You should put your leave request in, see what happens and take it from there.

EmpressaurusDeiGatti · 08/10/2024 17:11

It would be far easier for a couple with small children to shift their Christmas celebration to a couple of days before or after than it would for an adult who needs to travel to see their family.

As for ‘be kind’ and ‘it takes a village’, if someone gets preferential treatment when they have small children then it’s only fair that they pay it back once their kids are older by taking their turn to offer to cover for parents of you get kids. But it’s NOT fair if people who never have kids, for whatever reason, are expected to volunteer every year.

Hoardasauruskaren · 08/10/2024 17:04

MuffinDadoCappuccino · 08/10/2024 15:00

I’m my team, those of us with children tend to live with partners and/or close to extended family whereas my child-free colleagues live alone and quite far from family. If Christmas leave was reserved for people with children, my child-free colleagues would be alone at Christmas every year. For me, as much as I hate to work over the Christmas period, I’d at least come home to my family every evening.

All of us want time off to be with our loved ones, that feeling isn’t reserved for those of us with young children.

This is exactly the case in my work! Those who are fairly newly qualified have often moved to the city for uni/ work & need a few days off in a row to see their loved ones !

As a parent working in the NHS Christmas working is part of the job ( incl Christmas Day ) & we all have to take our turn. No one gets priority! If not enough volunteers it’s names in a hat (you’re not included in this if you worked the previous year) . No preference given to parents of young kids, all treated equally. Stick to your guns op!

ahemfem · 08/10/2024 17:01

Girlinblue · 08/10/2024 14:40

This will be my second Christmas in this job. I work in a team of 5 and we are closed for the bank holidays but other than that there has to be at least 2 people in. Last year I worked Christmas Eve and the days between Xmas and new year. so was hoping that I would have it off this year because surely the fairest way to do this is to take it in turns each year?

Christmas time off has been talked about a few times because we just have to decide between us who is working when. It doesn’t get allocated for us. A couple of the women that I work with have talked about having Xmas off again because they have kids and have things to sort out. I said yes but I don’t really want to work it again because I did it last year and you both were off, so it’s not very fair if the same people are getting it off every time. They are saying that the people with kids should take priority. But just because I don’t have kids doesn’t mean I don’t also have things to prepare and things/traditions of my own. I want to spend time with my family and make plans etc just as much as they do.

I was thinking of bringing it up in a meeting to my manager to say how it needs to be split fairly. Myself and my other child free colleague also deserve to have the time off and our Christmas isn’t any less valuable to those with kids. i know some people don’t care about Christmas and some people do think it’s just for kids. But for me it’s not, I have a big family that I rarely get to see throughout the year and Christmas is the time that I get to see them and spend time with them.

Would I be unreasonable to bring this up further and insist that this should be split fairly each year? How is the best way to do it without causing unnecessary drama?

Yes speak to your manager. Don't agree to working it if you did last year.

MarkWithaC · 08/10/2024 16:59

Nogaxeh · 08/10/2024 15:49

Mostly it's a practical thing to do with childcare. Most childcare providers will want to take Christmas off too.

Secondly, there are other people involved. Just from a point of view of maximising happiness out makes sense to do something so that parents can be with their children.

I don't think that, as a society, people should have their noses so far bent out of joint over being asked to do something generous for their colleagues. Life is better if we're all prepared to be generous for others from time to time, and people without childcare, or other caring, responsibilities have a greater capacity to give.

It's unpleasant to cause difficulties over it. A sign of how selfish society is that people wouldn't think to offer automatically.

Show quote history

Most childcare providers will want to take Christmas off too. So most parents should be aware of that and be prepared to sort it out, rather than just assuming they will always get Christmas off.

Just from a point of view of maximising happiness out makes sense to do something so that parents can be with their children. You are meaning here that happiness is measurable, right? That children and parents being together is more happy than adult children and their parents, or adults and their dear friends, or adults and their spouses/partners being together? And more happy than a person wanting to spend Christmas Day in their PJs alone watching Carols from King's and eating cake, if that's their idea of a maximally happy Christmas? How do you measure it? Who are you to do so?

people without childcare, or other caring, responsibilities have a greater capacity to give. Says who? In what way? What 'capacity'?

A sign of how selfish society is that people wouldn't think to offer automatically.
A sign of how selfish society is, IMO, when people with kids don't seem to care anyone else's family/loved ones/wishes matter.

Disc0mbobulated · 08/10/2024 16:56

I don't think that, as a society, people should have their noses so far bent out of joint over being asked to do something generous for their colleagues. Life is better if we're all prepared to be generous for others from time to time, and people without childcare, or other caring, responsibilities have a greater capacity to give.

And when is that generosity to be repayed to child free people? When is it their turn to be put first?

DiliGaff · 08/10/2024 16:56

Longtimelurkerfinallyposts · 08/10/2024 14:46

Tell your manager that the system has to be fair.
And if your colleages bitch about it, have a (made-up) story ready about how one of your close family members has an incurable health condition and this will be their last Xmas and they really want you there... or something like that... and see if that changes their attitude

What a horrible thing to make up lies about.

I would ideally like to book Christmas off this year, as I am heartbroken to be facing up to being in that exact position this year, but the thought of people making up lies about this sort of thing is quite upsetting

MarkWithaC · 08/10/2024 16:54

Nogaxeh · 08/10/2024 15:42

I dunno. I just kinda feel that children are, even in a small way, a collective responsibility for society as a whole. "It takes a village to raise a child," sort of thing. That's why we have things like social services and state-funded education.

Working over Christmas doesn't seem like that big a deal as something to help out those with children.

As well as children, there are people of all ages in a typical village.
Is it 'not a big deal' for someone to have to forgo seeing a terminally ill relative because they have to cover Christmas for someone with a child?
Or for someone to have to be alone over the period because their family or friends who they'd spend it with live somewhere else and they haven't got enough time to travel there and back?

BeaLola · 08/10/2024 16:45

It shouldn't matter your reasons - it should be done fairly- you might be single and staying at home to eat chocolate all Christmas week watching Christmas tv - -you should be allowed time off if you would like it regardless of whether you have children or not

What happens if everyone where you worked had small children and they all wanted the entire time off year on year - it couldn't happen

rainbowunicorn · 08/10/2024 16:42

Nogaxeh · 08/10/2024 15:29

Did you not see the other thread from the parent who can't find childcare and is being asked to work over Christmas?

I do think that people who don't have childcare responsibilities should do the decent thing and volunteer to work over Christmas.

Why is someone else's childcare issues the OP or anyone else's problem? Why should anyone give up their own family time because of someone else's childcare?

fitzwilliamdarcy · 08/10/2024 16:30

On financial inducement, I'd absolutely work Christmas if I got paid a good additional sum to do so. It was proposed once during my 7-year stint of having to work Christmases, but the parents who were benefitting from me doing it for free said that it would be "unfair" of me to get paid for something I was doing for free, and that if it was implemented they'd go to HR on discrimination grounds.

More fool them, as that was the last time I accepted that it was somehow part of my job description to do it.

ellitheelephant · 08/10/2024 16:29

@Nogaxeh I see it the other way around - very selfish and entitled of the parents to expect colleagues without children to cover Christmas etc year after year rather than rotating if someone is needed to work over Christmas. It's fine to ask but if someone has worked the previous Christmas and now wants this Christmas off that should be the end of the discussion - no guilt tripping them to work just because they don't have young kids, and manager needs to step in and ensure leave is allocated fairly.