Christmas time off

There's really no factors to consider at all.

The manager should do a rota and people should take turns.

Thee end.

How many people with small children also don't have a car? Because I think that is a factor to take into consideration.

Also...people with small children ALSO have relatives to travel to see, and also have elderly relatives to care for. This will be my dads last Christmas.

What planet do you live on?

Thankfully my industry shuts down over Xmas so it isn't an issue for me. But my dad has advanced stage dementia so like absolute fuck would I be volunteering to work so people with children can stay home with them.

Parents choose to have children, and childcare is something for them to consider when taking a job. I didn't choose for my dad to have dementia and need caring for. And nor am I alone in this.

I think it's a really tricky one.
I didn't have children until I was 39 and 42yrs old. I spent 23yrs always volunteering to work any shifts and just juggle my own commitments because as an adult I could understand that although Christmas is really lovely for everyone, for small children it's just completely different, they believe in Santa, it's just so special and magical and something I never understood until I had my own. I would be genuinely heartbroken to have to work Christmas Eve and miss that excitement with them while mine are little HOWEVER I don't feel entitled to it, and would absolutely say to any colleagues whatever their circumstances that their Christmas is just as important. I guess what I don't understand is the idea of someone upsetting others just out of principle though. I'm lucky I work with genuinely lovely and kind people though who all try and compromise.

100% this

Noones plans are more important than another's.

Children are not the be all and end all of Christmas... I'd rather see a parent who has a relative/friend looking after the children work the Christmas period than a person who wants to visit an elderly family member who would otherwise be alone.

I say this as a parent who has worked part of the Christmas period, including Christmas days ever since my eldest was 9 months old.

The rota should allocate time fairly between all staff and no give preference to those who have kids purely because they have kids.

If I were that manager I'd allocate the leave fairly and then inform the team that anyone on the rota to work who calls in sick on a day they requested off but didn't get will be put on performance review.

To be fair in that thread both parents happen to be scheduled in a clash on xmas. Generally I would hope that karma would see them hopefully on opposing rota most years.

I wouldn’t tell the manager what she said.
a) it might be hot air and she has no real intention of following through
b) your manager might take it seriously and decide he can’t risk being short staffed, so make someone else come in instead.

Tell your manager all of this. You don't even have to name names.

"Hello Sue, I wanted to talk to you about the Christmas leave rota. I know you were hoping we would all sort it out between ourselves but it is already descending into a bunfight and I think we need you to step in and do some more active management because we can't resolve this conflict on our own. From my point of view, I was really hoping to have some time off this Christmas because I worked all through last Christmas and I would like to spend time with my family. But I'm getting comments from certain colleagues to the effect that their wish to have time off over Christmas trumps mine because I don't have children and they do. One person has even said that if they are put on the rota they will call in sick because they want the time off with their children and are also planning to host extended family this year. I wanted to make it clear that I find this attitude utterly unacceptable. If it is absolutely indispensable to have people working over Christmas for business continuity reasons then fine, but the number of staff rostered to work should be kept to a bare minimum and we all need to take our turn, including the people who have children. Otherwise, I can tell you how this will go. I'll have to work this year because I don't have children and other people do. And then next year I will have to work again because I still don't have children and other people do. And then the following year, until I either put my foot down and cause an almighty row, or I simply hand in my notice on 23rd November one year, ready to start a new job in January working for someone who respects the fact that I have an equal right to have time off over Christmas. I really don't want it to come to that which is why we all need you to manage the situation and come up with a fair solution. Thanks for your cooperation."

And if you're feeling really cheeky you could ask Sue whether she's planning to be off for Christmas herself, and if so, why she hasn't been part of the discussions about who gets the time off and who draws the short straw.

I'm a nurse with children. We are expected to work bank holidays and over Xmas. I've never thought it was fair to ask those without children to work xmas/easter. Your definitely not being unreasonable, and I would bring it up with your manager

This

This is a manager problem.
People will rarely agree on a schedule.

The manager puts a rolling schedule in place, keeps the history. Obviously after that people can agree exchanges but that's only if it works for them.

I've just sent out the Christmas leave Spreadsheet to all my teams, We can operate on a skeleton staff, but even so, I will make sure that requests are dealt with fairly, taking into consideration who was off last year.

Fairness is important - anything else leads to resentment.

I have children and would never expect priority over and holiday. Stick to your guns.

Every year this issue comes up on mumsnet and I feel angry on the ops behalf everytime. Just because you have dc doesn't mean you can automatically have Christmas off

Should have guessed your manager is man. He uses work as an excuse to not have to do family stuff over Christmas. Do doesn't see the issue

I hate the idea that people with kids get priority at Christmas. I have kids but even if I didn’t who’s to say I don’t fancy a nice festive hunker down with my cat and a huge tub of Quality Street? And who’s to say that’s not as worthy as having kids?

Raise it with your manager.

I work in a similar job and we seem to be able to figure it out between us - I prefer Christmas Eve off but am quite happy to work NY so the young uns can party and it works for us, but there’s always a deal to be done, and I’ve done my share of rubbish shifts over the years.

Perfectly reasonable to share the days out. If they need the 24th off they work the 27th then it's the weekend anyway. I'm working the 24th as it's half day anyway but if you want it off you have to book a full day!

I think I'd certainly be telling your manager about their comments to you re their perception that they're more entitled to the time than you and their attempts to get you to give way to them. That's unacceptable behaviour.

Given your colleagues' attitudes, I would 100% rat them out to the manager. I wouldn't name names but I would say that I'd be speaking to ACAS and a solicitor about my potential legal options in the event of not getting leave, in light of being told that I just didn’t understand, and that they should take priority because Christmas is for children.

This gives me such rage. People who feel entitled to essentially discriminate against child-free people by ruining their Christmas holiday.
OP, hold firm. You worked last year, consequently this year you will be off. Don't debate over it. Be difficult if needs be. Management need to work out a fair system.
I had to fight this last year. My family are 200 miles away and if I'd been in office I'd have been sitting in my apartment by myself.

This is entirely down to shit management.

I have kids, I'm also a team manager.

It's fair to do it every other year, that is reasonable. It's what my team do.