Christmas time off

Last year’s thread on this subject had a poster arguing that children would be permanently damaged by not having a parent there on Christmas Day and that childless workers had a duty to facilitate this whenever possible.

@CrazyGoatLady I agree. Unfortunately, my employer doesn't see it the same way.

A protected characteristic means an employer can't discriminate against you on that basis, which means they can't put you at a disadvantage with their policies or refuse to employ you because of a protected characteristic, etc.

So with working over Christmas, the employee would have to make the argument that the requirement to be on a Christmas rota and work a certain number of shifts/days to provide business cover is discriminatory in some way towards mothers. I think it would be very difficult to make the case that it is, because it is not essential to be with your kids on Christmas day to "feel the magic". That's something a mother might want, but it is not something an employer could be legally obligated to accommodate (as opposed to a child's sickness, medical appointment, childcare emergency, etc).

It could of course be discriminatory if an employer will not be flexible with a single mother who has tried to get childcare and absolutely can't. In this case, it's the employer's responsibility to deal with that, not childless colleagues, and when I worked on a 24/7 shift rota as a team lead then it was very clear, if someone couldn't do their shift and nobody else could swap or cover, a TL or manager would step in. But if a mother just entirely refuses to even consider working over Christmas because she just wants to be with her children on certain days, that's really not going to count as discrimination.

What happens if everyone in team has little kids to make Christmas magical for?

Not fair at all. You have as much right to time off as they do (you have more right than them as you worked last year). I have worked the last two Christmases and I have a young child.
Bring it up with your manager. They need to sort Christmas leave out fairly, that should be part of their job. Point out that you need time off and as you worked last year you should have this year off.

Childlessness isn't a protected characteristic in law, which may be why so many organisations feel comfortable with allowing a tier system to develop in which childless employees get shafted.

My arsehole colleagues use the fact that, by contrast, maternity is a protected characteristic to pressure management into continuing the status quo. I'm not convinced that this would actually hold up in a court (because I assume that maternity is related to the short period after the child is born, not the position where a woman has e.g. kids aged 5, 7 and 9), but it was enough to make my employer really wary of not giving in to them.

OP, I hope you make it very clear that you have commitments this made on the basis that you presumed you would be off having worked last year.

You have every right if told otherwise, for it to be confirmed on paper that your childless status is considered lesser than those with children in the company's terms and conditions.

That will be completely discriminatory.
Check with ACAS too.

Since some lazy employees decided they could legit use their kids as an excuse to get out of doing their fair share I guess.

I heard it a lot back when I used to do shift work, because the parents never wanted to do Xmas Eve or Xmas Day. That's "for children" apparently. I guess a lot of people have lost sight of the fact that Christmas is actually a religious holiday! They miss out on all the "magic" apparently 🤮

Maybe it's the autism and ADHD talking, but I never really felt like I missed out on having to cook a big meal with far too many elements and timings to worry about, deal with family in my house hyping up my neurodivergent children about Santa and presents, overstimulating them and stressing them out, bringing stupid things like singing Santa into the house that they hated and then being upset that they hated the novelty shite, having people tell me I'm spoiling my kids because I don't make them eat things they don't want to on Christmas, and expecting me to wait on them and anticipate their every need as well as deal with my kids being out of routine and stressed. Magical my arse. What's magical is working over Christmas as it makes family stay away and you can keep your life calm 😂😂😂

(I jest a bit, I do visit family at Christmas but I stopped hosting a long time ago and the work rota was a not inconvenient excuse!)

Since when has it been decreed that "Christmas is for children?"

That’s on the parents and management to resolve, not the OP.

People who cannot work on Christmas need to choose jobs with that in mind. Not arbitrarily decide that a random childless colleague can just go right ahead and cover all the shifts they can’t do.

There's no holiday clubs at Christmas thought. So if it's a single parent I genuinely don't know what you would expect them to do.

For the record, my reading of the thread is most parents (me included) don’t expect people who don’t have kids to be treated unfairly. That’s because we are not dicks and remember life pre-children when lots of things were equally important to us.

Absolutely bring it up to the manager, and point out that it can't be decided on by your team and needs to be allocated. No one has more of a right to be off for Christmas than someone else. I work in healthcare, no days off over Christmas, and it's expected that one year you work Christmas, the next new year, and it's non negotiable. Manager needs to implement this and be responsible for being involved. Children do not make you more improtant.

It should be shared out. Everyone should have the time off in turn if there’s no volunteers.
kids, no kids - irrelevant. Pre-kids I always wanted to go home to my family, still do usually.

In response to the suggestion that people without childcare responsibilities should volunteer to do all the Christmas shifts, you could just as easily say that people with childcare responsibilities shouldn’t take jobs where they might have to work over Christmas. And one would be as reasonable as the other.

Why should I give up my Christmas and time with friends and family because I don't have children?

Please explain why this makes me less worthy of fair treatment or indecent to not sacrifice my leave because I can't have children?

Admittedly because I do work in a profession where we all have to work xmas and so on none of us are allowed to book that fortnight off - everyone will get one or two days leave in the fortnight

There are 8 'crap' shifts - xmas eve night, xmas day, xmas night, boxing day, boxing night, new years eve night, new years eve day, new years eve night (xmas eve day doesn't count)- part timers have to work 1 of them, full timers have to work 2 - and in fairness most of us will go 'I had christmas off for the last two years it's my turn this year

Where my mum worked they were open between xmas and new years and it worked out that each of them needed to work one of those days but could have the other off

My husband and one other person have to make sure they are off opposite each other - they have agreed that one of them will work xmas eve the other will work the 27th so they each have 3 days in a row -

.

The point is that there are no trains in the UK on Boxing Day. So if you don't have a car and you have to work on the 27th, you can't go away for Christmas. I don't think that's such a big deal if you live with your partner and children because you can just stay home and visit your family before or after Christmas. But if you live alone and don't have a car, getting the 27th off is the difference between spending Christmas with your family, or spending it completely alone.

As bad is the colleague who if they don't get want they want rings in sick - we have sone one like that where I work - she didn't get what she wanted last year (despite having had Christmas off for 3 years) so called in sick for the 3 days she was working. Has since also called in sick when she didn't get the holiday days she wanted in the summer - sadly poor management and she gets away with it again

I guess what I don't understand is the idea of someone upsetting others just out of principle though.

Which childless person on the thread has indicated that they try to get Christmas off just because they can, even if it’ll upset mums of tiny kids, rather then because they have their own needs and/or family to consider?

I’ve said that I won’t be co-operating with the parent colleagues who treated me like dog shit for 7 years. If they’re upset by that then they shouldn’t have treated me that way.

Maybe for you that’s me being petty but for me, doing them a favour would be being a doormat!

If a new parent joined my team and wasn’t a dick, then of course I’d help them out.

People are always going to have a reason why they don’t want to work Christmas & that’s why a rota is the only fair way to do it. With, as someone else said, sanctions for anyone who goes off sick on a day they asked to have off & didn’t get.

Working over Christmas (or not) matters to people for a variety of reasons. And other people's children isn't the 'one ring to rule them all'.

This year, I don't want to work Christmas eve because I want to visit my elderly PILs on that day. They've both had serious health issues this year. I've worked Christmas eve (and days around it) for years.

If anyone implied that their need to be with their children on Christmas eve daytime automatically trumped mine without good reason, I'd be seriously pissed off with the entitlement.

I don't think it should be a factor. I clearly said it needed to be fair but I'm just saying there are also lots of people with children need to travel to see family. And I would say lots and lots of families don't have a car. (We have one but know lots who don't).

Being a manager is easy if you never have to manage. That’s what’s going on here.

I have DC. YANBU.

And besides, I thought you already committed to cousin Albert’s invitation? 😉