To really dislike Bridget Phillipson?

The concept of PS is evidently impossible for many posters on here to accept. Where they are extremely disingenuous is their motives however -
masquerading as guardians of the exchequer etc.
All of which is completely false.

The truth is - private schooling holds a mirror up to them as parents - their fears, their caprices, their success, and their perceived or real failures.

Big houses, luxury cars etc. whilst they may attract envy, don’t come anywhere near to the opprobrium reserved for private schooling.

The UK has always had a toxic relationship with those who aspire to get on, but Labour have really exploited it.

Its all very ugly.

My Dc go to a completely run of the mill comp.

A run of the mill comp which offers 8 languages?

When some of us want to access a similar provision, it becomes a luxury?

As a “high earner” you don’t think you should contribute more to your children’s education, a level of education which some of us can only access by paying for it?

Agreed OP

I’m just warming up ! … to be fair my kids are bright and I’ve been able so far to help them with subjects they struggle on so they’ve not been poorly impacted so far . I’m not a lot of use though now they’re GCSE level !

Seriously? Have you ever heard of budgeting for the future?

'This is why you can’t see the issue with the VAT. '

I don't see an issue with VAT because 1. private school is a luxury and should be taxed properly 2. There is an alternative - state school 3. I'm WC though now a high earner so have little sympathy for people whoa re also high earning and are well off but trying to paint themselves as victims

That simple. My Dc go to a completely run of the mill comp. Our choice. Private schooling is also a choice for some - fine. But tax needs to be paid.

TBH - I have more issue with charity status of these schools. That should have been the thing that changed

Grandparents are helping now.

On the plus side, that potentially saves IHT. The IHT saving can be offset against the additional VAT. Many families don’t have the luxury of grandparents chipping in.

I suspect none of this policy BP's idea, though she may be naive enough to think it's a good one, and might be supporting it because she has no ideas of her own.

In the interests of clarifying where the VAT on private schools idea did come from: it was in Michael Foot's election manifesto in the early 80's. It was then largely made impossible to implement by the UK's EU membership as it would've been against EU law. It was then resurrected post-Brexit by the hard-left of the labour party . Specifically, the idea was championed by members of the Fabian society and put in Corbyn's 2017 manifesto. So it's an idea of the hard left Corbyn wing.
As for why Labour are now supporting it: it's a sop to the hard left wing, that Starmer & co are happy to make in the interests of party unity, and it polls well with those who are prepared to indulge in the politics of envy, and who haven't thought through the large number of adverse consequences.

The costs associated with the policy (more state school places, benefits for staff made redundant at closing schools etc) will mean it raises far less than they anticipate and probably nothing at all. The 6500 teachers it'll supposedly fund in the state sector don't exist. It'll cause huge disruption, and the attention spent on implementing it and dealing with the fallout could better have been spent on many other things. i.e. there is an opportunity cost. The money they claim it would raise still wouldn't be enough to effect meaningful change - it amounts to less than 3% of the schools budget. A far larger increase in the schools budget is needed, funded from general taxation, which they are too cowardly to do. It's a regressive tax - it won't affect the likes of Eton, who are too rich to care, but will affect a lot of far less rich schools and parents who have nothing left to cut in their budgets. It discriminates against the tens of thousands of families who removed their children from the state sector after it failed to meet SEN or DME, and it will drive thousands of them into non-elective home education.

'Ok quick figure from private school near me - terms fees £7095 . Extra VAT to be found in January £1419 … I’ve just worked it out on my phone … you need a pretty huge income to just ‘ tighten your belt ‘ and find that surely ?!'

Your talking about people already paying over £21 PER child. Plus, how much extra for transport, uniform, music lessons, extra subject tuition, sports kit, school trips... those people aren't poor.

DF pays fees of £24k per child but says the actual cost is close to £30k with extras like the school transport ( £2k per year per kid) and now they'll be paying 20% VAT. She's unusual in that although they don't want to pay more they think VAT should prob be on fees. Grandparents are helping now.
And yes, they are posh - on both sides of the family.

It’s not for you to make that judgement thankfully - it’s a decision best made by their parents/guardians.

My DC state school does offer German - along with 7 other languages.

This is why you can’t see the issue with the VAT. You are one of very few people who can access that provision through the state and clearly don’t appreciate just how poor much of the state provision is. So you get it at no cost, and yet I can’t access that despite being subject to the same UK wide tax regime. This demonstrates the inequality across the state sector.

Do you honestly think it’s ok that you are offered a choice of 7 languages when our state school offers just 2? So not only am I penalised and forced to pay school fees if I want a similar provision, I should now be hit with a tax penalty as well?

The Woman on woman hostility your refer to is because we will do whatever it takes to protect our children.

This government have got some of us at each others throats- and it won’t be the only area in which they create division.

Reprehensible behaviour from Labour.

'My catchment school doesn’t even offer GCSE music or German, hardly minority subjects.'

Not to be picky but German is a declining language across the board - only one of the private schools in our city offer it. My DC state school does offer German - along with 7 other languages.
German is less than 30% nationally now and dropping.
Spanish has grown hugely, French stays steady, Chinese is increasing.

Languages goes in trends, but also from a practical POV Spanish also has many more speakers... When I was at school it was Japanese and German that were the trend languages

That term will only cover around 3 months, before the next invoice is due. To find extra income of £1419, a higher rate taxpayer will have to find spare gross income of £2500 just to cover that 3 months. A couple of children takes that to £5k.

However these children do not disrupt classrooms because the independent sector would either not take them or quickly ask them to leave

They are supported. I don’t get your claims that the op is nonsense

A child can be supported in private but find it harder in state without that in place

Ok quick figure from private school near me - terms fees £7095 . Extra VAT to be found in January £1419 … I’ve just worked it out on my phone … you need a pretty huge income to just ‘ tighten your belt ‘ and find that surely ?!

My children mix with state school pupils outside school. Children’s social interactions do not just happen at school.

I have a DC at one of the highest performing state schools in the UK and the sport and music provision are not a patch on my other DC’s private school. That’s not a criticism, it’s just a fact.

My DC’s state school does offer an excellent range of subjects but many of those are not available at our local comps (e.g. Latin, Mandarin, Russian, economics…). In fact, one of my friend’s DC’s wanted to take DT GCSE but it wasn’t available at his school,
which I find pretty shocking.

And as for “out of touch” you were the one making stupid jokes about Mummy and Daddy giving private schools parents a couple of hundred thou…you clearly have no idea about private school parents. Many of us have no bank of mum and dad to fall back on, and I’m sure there are others like me who are actually having to supplement their parents income because their pensions are so low.

My catchment school doesn’t even offer GCSE music or German, hardly minority subjects.

TBH some of the privately educated children I know could really benefit with going to state school and mixing more with their peers - their REAL peers, not children from the top 10% of earners being bussed and flown in from al over.

'Ok but it’s about children- it’s really not nice. A grown adult mocking them. '

I'm mocking the adults, not the children. Just to be clear on that. And as the alternative for the children seems to be either a bit more belt tightening in wealthy households ( kids still have a warm house, food etc) or going to normal schools ( the horror!) I have little sympathy for the adults going overboard on this one.

They should think of the money they'll be saving if VAT really the final straw and they stop paying 100's of thousands on schools.