AIBU to be absolutely livid with this palliative nurse?

Oh love, you've hit the nail on the head, which is admirable when you're in such pain. What your feeling, I think, is misplaced grief.

When Mum died we were told she had 24 to 36 hours left. But that time was a little like an elastic band, it could stretch out, or it could rebound. In fact, it could do both.

I've heard that some medics believe that some patients wait to be alone before they die. I believe my Mum hung on until my brother in law got there to support my sister. But I think that I suppose to comfort myself.

Whatever gets you through (anger, tears whatever) is fine, as long as you don't act on those feelings.

Sorry for your loss OP. My Dad passed a few years ago and I was with him. I had spent days by his side while he was acting how you described your DD. I don't think the nurse could have said anything more than she did. I really think it sounds like she was trying to soothe your nerves and I don't think you can be cross about that. It sounds like you were with him in his final moments and he was lucky to have you there. I am sure that was calming for him OP

Your anger is understandable, but misdirected. The nurse did nothing wrong and couldn't have been expected to predict when would be your Dad last moments.

YANBU to be upset right now
YABU to be “livid” with a palliative nurse.

Sorry for your loss but honestly, the nurse did nothing wrong. Be kind to yourself, he knew you were there 💐

OP, this sounds really upsetting and I'm sorry for your loss. But no, I don't think it's fair to be "absolutely livid" with the palliative care nurse. Of course, she's experienced with death, but she still can't know the exact moment he was dying. She did already kindly and gently warn you he was deteriorating, so you would be somewhat prepared for the inevitable happening soon. But she can't be blamed for not knowing this was the exact moment, as these 'moments' can go on for quite some time before the real moment of death occurs. And it does sound like you were actually there for his last breath.

Again, my condolences 💐 It's a difficult time, but try not to let the grief make you angry. It's hard enough to lose someone without being angry at someone who has done nothing wrong.

Take care x

My family and I were sitting at my sisters bedside after the palliative care team told us she had hours to live. We stepped outside for the nurses to turn her and she took her last breath while we out of the room. They told us this often happens. Likewise when my partner died I had gone down to the cafe after being with him for hours. As time goes on you may home to think that it didn’t really matter. You were there when it counted.

I was told the machines were off and it would be soon with my mum. Three days later I popped home for a shower. Guess when she decided to die 😂(I know that's common for lots of reasons)

I'm so sorry for your loss.
When my Uncle died, we had been there with him for about three days, and he was largely unresponsive. We asked a nurse about going to get food, and she said it should be ok, and would call us immediately with any issues.
We had been gone 20 mins when she called. We got back there just over 10 mins later, and he had gone. She was apologising and apologising, but apparently it's not uncommon for someone to slip away as soon as they're alone.

This is grief and guilt talking, yabu with your expectations of the nurse. You need to forgive yourself, you were with your dad when it mattered the most.
I worked as a carer and was there when one elderly resident passed. I was there when my granny died. I worked providing end of life care in people's homes and was there for the last moments of several clients. None of this helped when a good friend died, I wasn't able to tell she was about to go. Oh, and I don't recall any of them having erratic breathing or frowning in pain as new things immediately before.
Be kind to yourself

Op I'm sorry for your loss. However no one can predict when it is the end. All I can say is he isn't suffering anymore. 🙏💐🫂

In my experience as a former ward nurse, sometimes the patient appears to wait until the loved one pops out of the room to pass away. It happened with my own dad too. I'm so sorry for your loss

I’m sorry about your Dad.

I think your anger is misplaced grief. No one, not even the most experienced of experts can predict the moment of passing.

The Cheynes-Stokes breathing is something I’ve witnessed many times through my job. I can see certain signs that warn death could be imminent but I can’t pinpoint it. I’ve seen people go for minutes, hours or days.

I hope you find peace xxx

He knew you were there and he knew you loved him. Everything else is just a distraction. Be kind to yourself.

I'm so sorry for your loss OP.

You have insight into this being misplaced grief.

Even the most experienced, qualified end of life consultant cannot accurately predict when people are about to die. It's impossible. You can see signs, and the person continues on for hours or days longer. It's impossible to say 'this is it, now's the time' and if someone did and it wasn't, imagine the uproar and grief and trauma? Or if they were right, the person's last minutes might be wailing panicking family members desperately trying to cram last words in. The nurse has a responsibility to treat families compassionately, but her first primary duty is to her patient, your dad.

My DM's breathing changed well over 24 hours before she passed away.
The nurse had no way of knowing that your Dad's time was coming.
From what I've read, some people actually prefer to be alone when they finally pass away. This is what happened with my DDad - we literally entered the room as he took his last breath. I was very angry as we had been assured someone would be keeping an eye on him but this was impossible as his door (in a side room) was closed.
Your anger just now is a way that you are expressing your grief and completely normal,
@Smallwhitebutterfly, and please don't think I am minimising what you are going through. It's all so raw when you have lost someone you love.
Take care of yourself.

I'm so sorry for your loss but gently, yabu.

No one can predict the moment someone's going to die. We were told my grandmother was in the last couple of hours of life and her breathing was erratic...it took another 5 days before she took her final one.

I am very sorry for your loss.
I also think this is your grief talking. Death looks do for everyone and can take various time scales and pathways. What if she’s told ‘he’s dying right now’ and then he’d hung on for several more hours.
I would gently suggest you try and let this go. It sounds like his final moments were peaceful and pain free. That’s really the best anyone of us can hope for.

So sorry for your loss OP but you're spot on, it's misplaced grief. She was answering your questions as fully and honestly as she could by the sounds but no Dr or nurse, however experienced, can predict the very moment a patient will die. you were there for that last breath anyway and before, and all the years you spent with him 💐

Unfortunately even the most experienced palliative care professional can't predict death to the minute.

I've been doing palliative care for over 20 years now and I still can't do it. Some people will do that pattern of breathing for days.

People almost appearing to wait until their loved ones are out of the room is also common, even when families have been living in a room for days the person dies at the minute they nipped out to get a sandwich. It happens a lot.

So sorry for your loss, stroke is so sudden.

Sorry for your loss but as others have said no-one could know they were his last moments. Those grimaces that you describe literally could have been anything. I've been at hundreds of deaths and from those symptoms it would not have been possible to know that the end was near. Often people's breathing will become erratic then settle again.

I'm sorry for your loss but yabu.
No matter how trained and experienced a nurse is, death is still unpredictable.

When my mum was dying we were told she had a few days left so I went home to see my children and planned to come back the next day. She died in the early hours.

I don't blame the staff for this but at the time I was really upset that I wasn't there so I completely understand your pain and anger.

She did nothing wrong

I'm sorry. It sounds like she was warning you it was going to happen soon but it is pretty much impossible to tell exactly when.

Its easier to be upset with something tangible rather than the unfairness of your dad's death.

She didn't do anything wrong, but your feelings are totally 'normal' (for want of a better word).

I hope the coming days and weeks are as gentle on you as they can possibly be 💐

So sorry for your lost.

It very difficult to know the moment, my Nanna had many episodes similar to the above you described- they couldn’t tell us how much longer she carried on for 10 days - it was hard as we couldn’t all put our lives on hold but also didn’t want her to be alone or not close when the time comes. Sadly I missed it I was 2 hours away that isn’t the hospital fault it’s sadly when her body decided.