AIBU to be absolutely livid with this palliative nurse?

No one can know the last moments. Last year my grandad was nearing the end of his time and I had just got the palliative team involved for at home pain-relief as the weekend had been awful. She came over to do the assesment and said how poorly he was etc. She gave me a prescription and some notes. I kissed grandad and said I would be back in a moment. Took her to the door and popped into the front room to check on Nan. She hadnt wanted to hear the nurse talk about how ill he was. She was fine and I gave her the highlights of what was discussed. She went into the backroom to check on him and he was gone. That was it. I had been out the room for less than 3 minutes. He had been there wheezing and looking at me moments before.

This was my experience with my mum. There'd been someone there day and night for about a week. The nurses came in to turn her and freshen her up and we decided to go to the cafe. Got there and decided we didn't really feel like eating, so we went straight back. She was clearly dying when we went into the room, so if we hadn't come back when we did, she would have been gone.

I hear a lot of people say how their loved ones passed away when momentarily alone. I know one family who got as far as the hospital car park to go home for a change of clothes etc, when they got a call to say their loved one had passed away.

@Smallwhitebutterfly you were there with him in life, which is the most important thing xx

In my experience - loved ones leaving even if only for a few moments kind of gives the dying person permission to let go
Whilst you are there they are actually hanging on and struggling to leave thus world as they don’t want to leave you or other loved ones - even though it’s time to
It’s very common and you and the health professional did nothing wrong - it’s so hard to predict
People who are dying sense the love around them and know how much you care
I hope all our responses bring you peace at this incredibly difficult time x

I’m very sorry for your loss but I don’t think you can blame the nurse for his last moments not being how you want them. It’s not uncommon for people to wait until their family have popped out for the moment of death to come. Maybe they find it easier to let go that way.

I am sorry for your loss. I am glad that this thread is helping you with very understandable thoughts as you try and process your grief. It sounds like you loved your dad a lot.

I have learned something from your thread. I didn’t realise so many wait until their loved ones have left the room. It makes me wonder if people struggle to hold onto life when their loved ones are sitting around them in order to make every moment last. And then when they are alone, they kind of stop fighting and peacefully pass?

Hearing is the last sense to go. He heard you.

I'm so sorry for your loss. It's a hard feeling knowing you missed the last moment but also take comfort in the fact you were there for him so much. From what I've heard it's actually quite common for people to pass when a loved one leaves the room for a minute etc. My sister was in palliative care for 2 weeks and each day we thought it may be the day. My dad was with her all evening on the day she died but she passed away when he went to the toilet. Seeing them go through palliative care is so hard and it's something I'm still finding hard to process.

Thats so sad but its a difficult one. People have been known to be involved in accidents rushing to get to hospital in those circumstances so I think that generally the kind of calls to say come in because she is dying now are no longer made. Additionally there may have been no visible change in condition. People do just slip away and while patients in hospital are monitored and checked frequently, there genuinely may have been nothing to see or otherwise notice until the last breath happens. As has already been said, its anecdotally common for a person to actually appear to wait to be alone to let go. My grandmother in law was ill in hospital with heart failure. We all knew, including her, that it was touch and go. I remember the last visit. She asked after all the family, where they were and what they were doing and we had a nice gentle chat. She said to me that she was tired and would rest and told me to go and take a walk in the sunshine. I saw her settled and dozing and left and she fell asleep and just never woke again. I remain convinced that she knew at some level that she was going to die and wanted to be alone to do it.

I’m so sorry for your loss.

I don’t think the nurse did anything wrong though.

I’m pretty sure it’s not an exact science and that she had no way of knowing whether it would be that moment or some hours later.

Sorry for your loss. I’m a nurse and work with many patients at the end of their life, it is not possible to predict the exact last breath or final moments.

So sorry for your loss.

As others have mentioned, these things can't be predicted but it is a well reported phenomenon that people wait until they are alone/relatives not present before they pass away. So go easy on yourself and try to think of it as a demonstration of your Dad's love for you - one last act to try to protect you. He'll have known you were there.

Be kind to yourself in the days and weeks ahead.

I’m so sorry for your loss OP, but glad this thread is bringing some comfort that your dad would have likely known you were there at the end. Also reassurance that anger is very normal- but can’t be directed at the nurse, or at yourself.

I walked this tough road with both of my parents in hospice care. With my dad, we were told several times over a couple of weeks that his death was likely imminent. We were in and out of the hospice numerous times! Eventually we were told it would be hours. It was another day and a half after that… his illness (cancer) had not affected his heart and he had been a strong and fit man until a couple of months prior to his death, so his heart just kept on going at the end. The stubbornness is almost comical now I look back on it (because I’m 11 years on now, and there are memories I can smile at now, in amongst all the painful ones). My brother and I sat with him all night. Had a beer each and listened to his favourite albums, chatting about our childhood camping holidays (dad was completely unresponsive and doing the stop/start laboured breathing). In the morning, the nurses cam in to turn him and asked that we stepoutside briefly, saying they would call us if anything changed. We were outside the room for no more than a minute or 2, when a nurse appeared at the door to tell us to come in. And he had died, just like that. I’m certain he waited for us to bugger off so he could die in peace. He was a proud man and wouldn’t have wanted sadness, pity, sentimentality or any of that.

Two months later, my mum died in the same hospice. Two days before she died, she really rallied; was sat up in bed with more energy than she’d had in months, saying she wanted to put her best earrings on and go outside 😂 This ‘rallying’ is also something that some palliative workers are familiar with. Suddenly people want to eat or chat or move about, despite being actually in their last days or even hours. On the day she died, my brother and I sat and held her hands and told her how amazing she was. She chose that moment to slip away.

I have found enormous comfort over the intervening years in the belief that they each chose the right moment for them. In time, I have come to see them as ‘good’ deaths- I really believe there can be such a thing; just as there are good births- the actual event itself rather than what comes afterwards.

Wishing you strength for the tough times ahead. Grief is all-encompassing but it is survivable. 💐

I’m a nurse with a lot of experience in end of life care. I also lost my own Dad in January and there were several moments over the two days before he died that I thought he was taking his last breaths, but 10-15 seconds would pass and he’d start breathing again. He did have severe sleep apnoea which made it more complicated, but even I couldn’t predict that his actual last breaths were his last until there were no more, because that breathing pattern lasted two days. I didn’t sleep for longer than five minutes at a time because I didn’t know if I’d wake to see him again. I’ve seen people go five days with the same breathing pattern, and often silently willed them to let go because I know what it does to their families. Several times I told my own Dad, out loud, that it was okay to go and that we would all be alright. I wanted so much for him to stay with me forever, but I also couldn’t bear to see my strong, lovely Dad (who had been the picture of health just three weeks prior) struggle along in a body that wasn’t working because his brain hadn’t switched back on in the right places when he was resuscitated.

I think you know YABU, and I say it in the gentlest way possible, because there is nothing reasonable about grieving. Being angry with your Dad’s nurse is just misplaced grief. Anger is a normal part of this whole shitty process, and it makes us latch onto the nearest person because we look for someone, anyone, to blame when there often isn’t anybody to blame.

I wish you and your family as much peace as you can find

I think it's because they know you can carry on without them (even if it feels like you can't) they kind of think it's ok. I can relax. And let go.

MIL sat with FIL for 3 days solid, she left to have a shower and he passed away, they do say they go when alone sometimes
sorry for your loss

I'm sending you my condolences OP. I don't think the nurse is at fault here though.

Like others have said, it is very difficult to predict a time or date of death. I've worked in healthcare since I was 18, and I'm an experienced ward nurse (I'm not a palliative nurse though), yet I still missed my Dad's passing by a few minutes (I had been sitting with him all day, and then had to collect my DC from after school club and give them a quick supper before coming back in). I knew that his prognosis was not good, but I couldn't have guessed when he was going die (he'd been on an even keel up to that point)!! Honestly, some people hang on until their loved ones go for a coffee or to the WC etc and then they will die. Others can take more time.

I have also been the nurse in your Dad's palliative nurse's situation. I was giving family an update about a patient's situation (family knew that patient was under palliative care). As I was updating them and explaining the plan, I glanced over at patient and saw the patient's breathing pattern markedly change - so I quickly prepared the family (just in case) and made sure patient was comfortable. Patient passed very peacefully soon after that.

You were with your Dad when he passed, and you told him that you loved him. Please be kind to yourself. Also remember that grief can kick up a whole range of emotions.

For other posters, please know that we do try to sit with patients who are dying as much as we can if their families are not with them.

I'm so sorry for your loss. Grief is terrible and I think you are bring hard on yourself and gently hard on the nurse. When my baby died last Christmas, and the life support was removed, they thought 5 mins at most because he was so sick. He lasted 45 minutes. To be honest the longer it went on, the harder it was seeing him pass. I'm so sorry for your loss bit be good to yourself. He knows you were there trust me. Xxx

I lost my mum last December, we were told she was actively dying but it would be 3 or 4 days.

All family having spent many hours with her we went home very late to sleep and I explicitly said any change in condition call me. The only call I got 5 hours later was to say she had passed 20 minutes earlier. Whilst the fact she died alone will always haunt me no one can predict when it will happen

I am so sorry for your loss xx

Sorry about your Dad.

I don’t think the prediction of death is an exact science. Nor, in many cases, can a person’s death be given an exact time. They close down gradually.

Some hang on until a date, until someone has visited them, others slip away when someone’s left the room, gone home.

I’ve read that the last sense to go is hearing and so if you spoke to your Dad just after he had taken his last breath I think he may well have heard you and gained comfort from that - as you should too.

It sounds as if you were there as he took the very last breath OP . I think he would he’s been able to hear and feel you there.
no one is at fault here.

This.

Kindly yabu but its understandable.

Nobody can really predict death. Also when I worked in a carehome it was well known that people often seem to slip away in the moments that loved ones nip off to eat or go to the loo. Almost like they are hanging on to last few moments with their family, being alone seems to allow them to let go. It’s incredibly common.

Sorry for you loss :(

It's likely that your Dad knew he was loved and you were with him.

Even when people are clearly actively dying, it is impossible for anyone to say when it will happen. Like others have said, death isn't the moment breathing stops. That is just the moment breathing stops. So you were actually there when your dad slipped away. And take comfort in knowing that - to me a nurse - it sounds like it was peaceful. That is the way you want it to be.

I'm sorry for your loss.