To think the government should put VAT on cake

@taxguru a wise man indeed! The vat rules in particular do defy logic.

Yes, clients look at you as if you're an idiot when you try to explain some of the rules. I think clients generally expect tax rules to actually make sense, but lots of time, they defy logic!

It always reminds me of my tax lecturer at Uni decades ago. His first words of his first lecture was something like "You shouldn't try to understand the reasoning and logic behind the tax rules - all you need to do is LEARN the rules and LEARN how to apply them - and don't waste your time thinking as to why - it would drive you mad!" He was a very wise man indeed!

@taxguru oh I get you! I'm a tax advisor but only deal minimally with vat and not on food generally. But I do find it fascinating - primarily as I dont work in it, so I dont need to explain it to clients

When I was doing my exams, my boss asked me to research the vat treatment of chocolate covered fruit - the rules are bonkers.

Vat as a whole is bonkers rules.

I'm an accountant and it's all a pain in the neck, especially trying to explain unfathomable rules to clients.

Latest was a little cake/sandwich shop. An absolute nightmare trying to set up their till as some things were cooked to eat such as bacon baps (i.e. hot foot, so takeaway, so VATable) whilst others were cooked because they had to be cooked, such as pies and bread (so food, so zero rated even if sold hot as straight out of the oven). Then they sell a mix of cakes and biscuits. But the hardest for them to understand was sandwich platters. If they sell all the components packaged separately, i.e. wrapped sandwiches, plus pots of salad dressings, plus a pack of sausage rolls, plus a pack of pork pies, then a box of mixed salad, for the customer to unpack and lay out themselves, it's zero rated as it's food, but it they lay it all out on platters and all the customer has to do is remove the cling film/foil, it's catering, so standard rated!

All so needlessly complicated.

A bit harsh. Even Marie Antoinette thought us plebs ought to be able to have cake.

I'm one of these weirdos who finds the vat rules on food absolutely fascinating. Bonkers. But fascinating at the same time. And grateful I don't work in vat as such!

There have been some crazy cases surrounding vat on food items.

😂 😂 😂

As long as it not red velvet or carrot cake

A ship's biscuit, and be grateful!

Cake should be taxed given the amount diabetes and obesity costs the health service. I would tax all upf (including those containing artificial sweeteners) and use the money to subsidise whole food.

I also think there should be pictures of fatty liver and diabetes related limb amputation on cakes (as is done for cigarettes).

It is!
This was debated several years ago (1991)
They are cake for VAT purposes, thus exempt
Except @72hoursinaande is suggesting the untinkable!
And i don't even like cake! Unless it's a very dense fruit cake, preferable Christmas cake, no icing, no marzipan...

I agree, but takeaways are already liable to VAT at 20% which doesn't stop most people buying them. So it may raise tax revenue, but probably won't help the obesity epidemic and NHS/care crisis.

Maybe an even higher rate of VAT on takeaways and restaurant/cafe food may start to have an impact?

Anyway, no govt would do it. Look at Covid where they actually reduced VAT on takeaways and eating out and set up the eat out to spread covid scheme, to help the catering/hospitality industry.

The reality is that they want people to buy crap food as the food/hospitality/catering industry would collapse if they didn't causing mass unemployment.

Confectionery is already taxed at the full VAT rate.

I totally agree- we need to start taxing high calorie foods & takeaways. It works in reducing alcohol & tobacco use & would work for obesity too. Zero rate all unprepared or minimally processed fruit & veg, loads of basic foods like bread, pasta & healthy ready made soup & low calorie ready meals.

Good idea. Saying that I never eat cake. They shouldn't tax period items as that's essential. Cake, biscuits, private school isn't!

I'd rather they didn't adulterate the recipes, and instead the product became more expensive, so that it became a less frequent treat.

Mostly they chose to adulterate the soft drink recipes and now it's much harder to find a simple sugar-containing fizzy pop. There's all sorts of random crap in them, and after a reaction to one can it's possible my OH is mildly allergic to stevia.

I think I'd like vat on a sliding scale so if there was more than x% fat, y% sugar or z% sweetener then the cake is taxed.

It would improve health more than raise tax as I think manufacturers would tweak the recipes of everyday cakes to avoid vat (so a drizzle of icing instead of covering the top/adding icing but leaving off the chocolate shapes etc) and over time this would retrain people's palates.

Yes, VAT on cakes. If it's OK to tax private education, it's certainly OK to tax cake. Nobody needs cake. And if they do, they can make it VAT free from scratch.

No way, especially not carrot cake

The government should do more to ensure we can all eat healthy food cheaper. Not sure how, but nice fruit and veg has become ridiculously expensive.

Surely, we should be encouraged yo make do and mend! It is amazing how often I break eggs and have to make cake.
Home made for your own use shouldn't have vat!

And those very posh artisan Cake/coffee places.

I dislike cakes.....yes its true.

I agree vat on cake.

If it was possible to tax cake, biscuits, chocolate, sweets, ice cream, fried foods, ready meals etc and use the money to make fresh, healthy whole foods more affordable then I would definitely be in favour of it.

Otherwise, no. Poorer people would be disproportionately affected as they can't easily afford healthy alternatives.

They can quadruple the tax on tobacco and alcohol. But leave cake alone.