The way some people let toddlers behave......

Definitely. I think things got a bit side tracked on this thread ( partly my fault ) but yes in this scenario it's definitely not about development etc. the parent should just get the kid off the trampoline until it's his or her turn.

Thank you. x

Also I don't understand what their development has to do with the lack of parenting, like the trampoline example, no one is expecting a toddler to know not to jump on when someone else is on there, but it should be expected that the parent will remove the child.

Na cos I've seen much older children throwing tantrums and behaving like toddlers because their parents have effectively taught them that this sort of behaviour is acceptable or that it will get what they want

Don't think I could wait until 3 for my child to be mostly reasonable. Yeh, they'll throw a wobbly now and again but from 2 you should be able to simply reason with a child. I imagine it's harder with a child who doesn't have the language skills for it at that age though, but any toddler can understand being immediately removed from a situation if they're behaving in a way that they shouldn't. Throw sand at another child's face? Immediately removed from sandpit with a firm "no, we don't throw sand at people." That happened twice for my (then) 1 and a half year old to never do it again. Other things took a bit longer but they get there quicker with a parent who consistently does something about it than with a parent who just waits for them to grow out of it. I have friends who are very laissez faire with their toddlers. No surprises as to how their children behave.

I did say it depends but I think you're expecting a lot from a 2 year old. I also removed my kids immediately after throwing sand etc, they still continued doing even beyond 2-3 occasionally - no matter how many times I said no and gave a consequence - such as leaving. It's not as black and white as you make it, with all children.

Now they don't throw sand anymore or snatch etc. but it took A LONG time and emotional regulation that they needed to just develop into. Same with snatching. It would be great if you just had to tell a child once- but it simply won't work with some. Apparently I was also a child that just needed telling once. Mine just weren't like that. Not because I didn't try !

I just had to wait until they were ready emotionally to see better behaviour. That's just my opinion, having raised two.

Of course there are many parents who want to pat themselves on the back for their superior parenting which tames their toddler. But I don't buy it for a second. Natural temperament and time.

I think there's some crossed wired here now between "bad behaviour" for want of a better word - like hitting, snatching, pushing in etc, and normal toddler tantrums/no impulse control/boundary pushing.

Tantrums at being told No are really normal, a toddler running around with no concept of others is normal, a toddler not immediately understanding taking turns etc is normal.

The problem arises when parents do not step in to guide them. When they're allowed to try and climb up a slide, preventing others from going down. When they're snatching from other kids with no one teaching them not to do that.

Gradually, as they get older, the tantrums will (in the majority of cases) get less intense and eventually cease as they are more able to understand and be reasoned with. But if they are not taught how to behave, they cannot learn.

@aintnohollabackgurl

I think when the children are really young, there's not much you can do but keep them safe when they're having big feelings and not give into them constantly.

I agree, but that is parenting. Not just standing by thinking how cute they are when they're disrupting other people's lives as in the OP's examples. I personally cringe at the phrase "big feelings" though.

Then from 3 ish ( this differs ) they start to be a tiny bit more reasonable, day by day.

Don't think I could wait until 3 for my child to be mostly reasonable. Yeh, they'll throw a wobbly now and again but from 2 you should be able to simply reason with a child. I imagine it's harder with a child who doesn't have the language skills for it at that age though, but any toddler can understand being immediately removed from a situation if they're behaving in a way that they shouldn't. Throw sand at another child's face? Immediately removed from sandpit with a firm "no, we don't throw sand at people." That happened twice for my (then) 1 and a half year old to never do it again. Other things took a bit longer but they get there quicker with a parent who consistently does something about it than with a parent who just waits for them to grow out of it. I have friends who are very laissez faire with their toddlers. No surprises as to how their children behave.

The more reasonable they become, the more you can explain the world to them and how it works.

You can't just wait for that to happen though. They become more reasonable and have the language to talk about things because you start those "conversations" with them before they can even talk. The complexity of the language can then grow with them.

Sadly there are a lot of people who have children but don't parent them.

Please look for the parent and go raise your issue with them instead. I feel like some parents go for the child to avoid confronting the parent. The parent is responsible for the child so go speak to them, whilst removing your child from the situation/looking after your child. I had another parent tell my son (age 4) he was "naughty" and a situation where a parent told their child loudly in front of me that my son was "unkind". But actually he is autistic and couldn't cope with their child invading his personal space

I won't stop adressing the child directly if the parent isn't doing it. If they are too small to understand or autistic or ND or whatever: the parent needs to parent. Absent that? I am the village. Parents can do their job, or i will say my piece.

Imagine the wrath the parents would have gave the waiter had he accidentally spilled something hot on that baby.

and my comments would be the same: you have to keep your eye on them and guide, teach and remove them when they are acting inappropriately.

I don't get how so many people, on a parenting forum, are so deaf to this perfectly normal advice

I think when the children are really young, there's not much you can do but keep them safe when they're having big feelings and not give into them constantly.

Then from 3 ish ( this differs ) they start to be a tiny bit more reasonable, day by day.

All my two year old knew when he tantrumed was his massive upset. It just eventually got better as he matured. Same with my daughter. I don't think I did anything except be there and keep them safe to make that stop.

The more reasonable they become, the more you can explain the world to them and how it works.

@Wishingplenty

The reason their toddler stopped was because month by month and week by week their child was growing up and got older, then they moved onto the next phase of their life, which children naturally progress to.

So parents are what? Just bystanders to their children's development? Do they just wander through life with their children, watching them change and raise themselves?

🙄

It's this but it's older kids too, I have a toddler and I stopped going to certain soft plays near me in part because there were bigger kids running like bulldozers through the baby only areas with no parents in sight for example

@Wishingplenty I'm sorry to add to the many many responses to your post but.... I have in no way forgotten just how awful the toddler years can be, and I know perfectly well that you can't just ask a toddler not to do something. If your child is causing mayhem or getting in people's way it is up to you, as the parent, to stop them doing it. Physically, if necessary. I remember my own toddler having a tantrum in Sainsbury's - I ended up picking her up and stowing her under my armpit while doing the remainder of my shopping. Of course I tried the reasonable approach first, but that doesn't always work with a toddler.

I do agree with you here.

They will stop tantruming when they don't get their own way, when they're ready to do so. The same with impulse control.

All we can do is make sure when they tantrum, we don't give in - because then they'll know it gets them what they want. But the actual tantrum, won't stop until they're ready developmentally.

Impulse control is also something that gets better over time. Of course we tell them to wait their turn etc and model the correct behaviour, but I think it takes time until they get it and we don't control when that time comes and I don't think it's much to do with what we actually do. I think when kids start to reason a bit, then what we as parents do and teach them, makes a difference. At least that's how it feels with my two.

It could be that I parented them correctly and that's why they grew out of certain behaviours but I just don't feel like it was that.

I was in a shop yesterday with just turned 1 year old gd walking just in front of me. A little girl (about 3)was passing and stopped, my gd started shouting at her. Obviously I told her (in an age appropriate way) not to be shouting at the child and give her a little wave hello, which she did. Mother was smiling, I was smiling, kids were smiling. Some aul bat behind me tells me not to be giving out to her, she's only little 😂😂 didn't go down too well when she was told to mind her business.

Absolute tosh. You must be a truly ineffectual parent if you can't ( or more likely won') control your child. I take it if a class full of toddlers at your child's daycare wasn't controlled and continually thumped/bit/ kicked your child you would shrug and say hey ho never mind? I bet you wouldn't, you would be screaming blue murder.

Oh I think all those stupid idiots that took to the streets a couple of months ago have been controlled. Perhaps for some not what they were expecting, but at least they are off the streets now most of them. Jobs gone, criminal records, families broken up. I bet they are so proud of themselves.

Jesus, I'm sorry, but No. It's probably at the very least a mix of the child growing up and more able to be reasonable AND parenting.

How on earth does a toddler learn how to behave if the parent doesn't teach them? I don't mean by shouting or smacking or shaming either, I mean by modelling good behaviour, re directing, teaching through role playing games and such like. Toddlers don't just magically get to 4/5 years old and walk into school with a switch now flicked, thus enabling them to all of a sudden understand taking turns, that hitting is bad, that sometimes they need to stay still and listen etc. They gradually build those skills through learning from a very young age and as their brains develop, they get better at putting those skills into practice in gradually more advanced ways. And yes at 4/5 they are still learning those skills, of course they are. Which is why parents need to help them by teaching them!

Time took away their behaviour, not because you smugly and patrionisingly parented them so well.

Consistent, effective and responsible parenting over time would be the major contributing factor to not raising a thug, not actual time. Possibly.

But what would I know, I've only got 3 older DC without asbos or major developmental issues, smug cow that I am.

Sorry for the heavy sarcasm but I am so fucking sick of having my family's life curtailed by irresponsible knobheads.

My teens are well adjusted and don't cause trouble because I parented then from baby hood. They don't suddenly outgrown a stage with no intervention. If people do it your way are other people just going to have to put up children acting out in public, tripping people up, shouting abuse, knife crime because it will turn into that without parental input. I've seen it myself, teens at school who had no parental input at toddlers)children so on to do much worse things.

Laughable. There's not a 3 year old born that could get the better of me.

I don't think anyone has said that, has they? They've said they didn't let the prospect of toddler tantrums put them in unsafe positions or ruin other people's games.

And a toddler may grow up a bit and stop the tantrums of their own accord, but it is parents' job to teach them right from wrong, safe from unsafe, kind from mean etc.