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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

So if your friend lost 5 stone in 6 months .. would you wonder how ?

386 replies

AboutVattime · 05/10/2024 19:33

Just inquisitive.. my best friend has always been obese. About 22 stone. I have worried about her health silently for a very long time.. she started Mountjaro in April and is now 14 st. I am completely thrilled for her . Her blood pressure is now 'upper' but not ' see your healthcare provider' .. her heart 'murmurs' have ceased.. I am worried that when she come to the end of her treatment she's will just gain it all again. It is without a miraculous drug.. she has struggled to afford...she is incredibly good with money and financially planned every inch of her journey so that her treatment equalled less than her cost of food consumption.. but only in the short term ( she planned 8 months but goal in 6)

My AIBU is ..I see the amazing difference , she is so happy for the first time in a long time after years of weight watchers, slimming world, Cambridge diet.. low carb, NHS gastric band..(15 years ago which helped but only ever got her to 16 stone before piling it back on) .. she has found one of the Mountjaro providers who will prescribe a maintenance dose...

But she can't afford it long term. It will be £189 per month without a discount.. AIBU to say I can pay this for her. She is my very best friend . I love her new found sense of self confidence.. and don't want it to go.. the money is not an issue for me . I am extremely comfortable and struggle to spend. However would love to help someone I love very much.

Just for complete transparency I had crept over into 'unhealthy' zone as also had osteoporosis in knees. Also took Mountjaro for 2 months and know how incredible it is. I have kept it off for 5 months without a maintenance dose .. it just reinforced healthy eating recipes for me . . But I haven't been morbidly obese

OP posts:
LaurieFairyCake · 06/10/2024 21:16

purpl

No, won't be taking any other exercise up as I'm very happy with walking the dogs every day - I never used to be able to do that. I've now been doing it 4 years and love it.

I don't have time and can't do most other exercises anyway (arthritis/money/time - all classes where I am are £20 an hour)

Besides walking is something I can enjoy and do forever.

Even at my weight it's still weight bearing Wink

FlappingMadly · 06/10/2024 19:50

ItTook9Years · 05/10/2024 20:08

Obesity is a pretty new human condition.

If you eat the way humans did for tens of thousands of years before the food manufacturers came along, guess what, the human body thrives!

Tens if not hundreds of thousands of people worldwide are discovering this. But I guess it’s easier to use expensive, off-list meds instead.

You’ve just answered your own point. Until the food manufacturers came along. Obesity is complicated but carry on if your judgmental opinions make you happy.

MrsTerryPratchett · 06/10/2024 19:38

I SAID IT WOULD HAVE BEEN NORMAL FOR EARLY HUMANS TO HAVE PERIODS WITHOUT FOOD. LIKE IN WINTER WHEN THERE WEREN’T BERRIES OR PLANTS TO EAT.

Did early humans only live in places like Europe with those kinds of seasons? Weird. And BTW early Indigenous people developed fruit leathers, so they could have berries year round. They also migrated, ate various things to maintain diet all year round and so on. They also ate starchy roots, fish, insects, leaves and so on.

Many first peoples lived in places where they are positively falling over food, of course. Look for the early people who have a rich tradition of art and culture, they probably had too much food and lot of leisure time.

Sugar takes work (fruit and honey) so we crave those to make us do the work. Early humans would have been mainlining sugar if they could.

CrispieCake · 06/10/2024 19:38

If I want to give people money without them being offended, I offer to 'loan' it to them, but am very clear that they can just pay me back 'whenever there's a bit more slack in the budget'. And then I just wave it off, 'Oh don't worry about it, just pay me back when you've got a bit extra or unexpected lottery win'. If you want to pay for this for your friend, is there any way you can do it like this?

Herewegoagain84 · 06/10/2024 19:23

This sounds like marketing. The thread title covertly sets the question in your head and behold, a wonder drug is revealed under the guise of a concerned friend.

Washingupdone · 06/10/2024 19:05

OP you have said you have changed your way of eating but has your friend? Is she relying too much on the drug? As you said she has already had an operation that worked for a time and then back to the old ways of eating the weight went on. If your friend isn’t willing to change her ways then it’s sadly money wasted.
I have an obese friend who went to a clinic for three weeks, her diet was very good, she had to eat a certain amount of food, three times a day, a list of 3 weeks of meals to be repeated. They weren’t the usual small amounts but ordinary everyday filling meals, protein, veg and starch. She lost weight 2 kilos a month but after 3 months she decided she would pick and chose what she wanted to eat and on went the weight.

Purpl · 06/10/2024 18:59

LaurieFairyCake · 05/10/2024 19:52

Everyone who has taken the momentous decision to pay for this healthcare and save the nhs FORTUNES should get this for free once they're in the healthy weight band

End of.

I am doing this. I will not be able to afford this forever. I am insanely weight loss resistant, I am well under 5 foot.

I spent £17000 on a sleeve gastrectomy when I hit menopause. I was starving, I had been restricting for decades to 1300 calories, I have willpower beyond belief. I put up with being hungry every moment of every day. I was 5 stone overweight.

The gastric sleeve took me down to not being hungry on 1000 calories.

I lost 5 stone. I stopped losing. I was still overweight.

Mounjaro has taken me down to 600-800 calories without hunger. I have lost a further 2 stone.

I still need to lose 2 stone to get to 23 bmi, 7 stone. Bang in the middle of acceptable for my height.

I will need this drug forever. Or I will be hungry on 600 calories. I cannot cope with being hungry and putting weight on.

Every member of my family has died with obesity and heart disease, younger than they're supposed to have done. My mother at 61, father 63, grandparents 54, 66.

The nhs will SAVE MONEY OVERALL giving me this drug

This drug means I can walk 10 miles a day, have masses of energy. Run a team in the nhs, work full time

I am worth living without the threat of obesity because I happen to be (normally) hungry when I can only eat 600 calories.

you will be able to keep it off. you need to weight train and build muscle to help burn calories and be able ti eat more. excercise will be key. if you feel better with the weight off you are more likely to find an excites routine you enjoy. a dance class tennis spin judo swimming anything really. i wish you lots of luck you are doing amazing. you should be proud of yourself

CorbyTrouserPress · 06/10/2024 18:57

ItTook9Years · 06/10/2024 18:34

2.5 is worst case (in your terms). 8 weekly and it’s not even 2 days a month. Half the picture you tried to paint.

accuracy not a strong point?

I think you’re mistaking me for someone else. I never gave any ‘terms’ and I haven’t painted any pictures. I was simply saying that the difference in accuracy wasn’t particularly relevant to the point being made by another poster.

checking usernames not a strong point?

LaurieFairyCake · 06/10/2024 18:56

Yeah just to echo the other poster I walk at least 10,000 steps every day. For me that's 90 minutes walk (I have dogs)

It makes practically no difference to calories I can consume. If there's any difference it's negligible

Havinganamechange · 06/10/2024 18:47

That’s incredibly kind of you and a lovely gesture, if I was your friend I would be touched. It may be worth putting a timescale of two years on it in case the financial situation changes for you?

ItTook9Years · 06/10/2024 18:38

Gladicalled · 06/10/2024 18:28

No it’s not.

starving yourself for 2.5 days a month and making out it’s a fact that’s it’s healthy for all humans is wrong. Your basis of how we lived tens of thousands of years ago isn’t a fact.

And it’s really damaging for vulnerable people to read. and it comes with massive risks to health for a lot of people.

But it’s ok if you call it fasting?

I DIDN’T SAY IT WAS HEALTHY FOR ALL HUMANS.

I SAID IT WOULD HAVE BEEN NORMAL FOR EARLY HUMANS TO HAVE PERIODS WITHOUT FOOD. LIKE IN WINTER WHEN THERE WEREN’T BERRIES OR PLANTS TO EAT.

Some of those early humans would have been eaten by sabre toothed tigers or died of infections. Sorry for not sharing a full “week in the life of”.

There are still tribes living like that FFS. And guess what health issues they don’t experience………

Yet to read a paper referring to eating disorders in Neolithic times.

ItTook9Years · 06/10/2024 18:34

CorbyTrouserPress · 06/10/2024 18:23

Not really

2.5 is worst case (in your terms). 8 weekly and it’s not even 2 days a month. Half the picture you tried to paint.

accuracy not a strong point?

Gladicalled · 06/10/2024 18:28

ItTook9Years · 06/10/2024 18:20

3.5 days (up to) every 6 weeks averages out to 2.5 days a month. Max. Rather different to the picture you tried to paint in misquoting me.

No it’s not.

starving yourself for 2.5 days a month and making out it’s a fact that’s it’s healthy for all humans is wrong. Your basis of how we lived tens of thousands of years ago isn’t a fact.

And it’s really damaging for vulnerable people to read. and it comes with massive risks to health for a lot of people.

But it’s ok if you call it fasting?

Gladicalled · 06/10/2024 18:24

NamechangeRugby · 06/10/2024 18:05

Give over. I'm not going to dispute everyone on the thread. I have one point to make and I stuck with it.

You have misquoted me and misinterpreted me. I have never, ever even mentioned the poster on 600 cals. I have never, ever commented on what individuals eat or don't eat. You are all mixed up and angry, but it really shouldn't be with me!

You don’t need to do it.

But it make you look disingenuous to be very concerned about vulnerable people being harmed when it comes from one side.

I apologise if I misquoted you. Many posters have clung on to the one person who eats 600cals I may have got that wrong.

To be clear, I am not angry. I am explaining why it comes across as disingenuous. Had you have been concerned about the huge amounts of posts on MN that are quite harmful, I would have agreed. Any anger you are reading into my posts is the tone you created in your head.

CorbyTrouserPress · 06/10/2024 18:23

ItTook9Years · 06/10/2024 18:20

3.5 days (up to) every 6 weeks averages out to 2.5 days a month. Max. Rather different to the picture you tried to paint in misquoting me.

Not really

ItTook9Years · 06/10/2024 18:22

So no one is worried about what you think is suboptimal for health.

And yet, you’ve spent hours coming back at me.

You think meds are wonderful and not to be questioned. I disagree. I’m done now.

MustWeDoThis · 06/10/2024 18:21

AboutVattime · 05/10/2024 19:33

Just inquisitive.. my best friend has always been obese. About 22 stone. I have worried about her health silently for a very long time.. she started Mountjaro in April and is now 14 st. I am completely thrilled for her . Her blood pressure is now 'upper' but not ' see your healthcare provider' .. her heart 'murmurs' have ceased.. I am worried that when she come to the end of her treatment she's will just gain it all again. It is without a miraculous drug.. she has struggled to afford...she is incredibly good with money and financially planned every inch of her journey so that her treatment equalled less than her cost of food consumption.. but only in the short term ( she planned 8 months but goal in 6)

My AIBU is ..I see the amazing difference , she is so happy for the first time in a long time after years of weight watchers, slimming world, Cambridge diet.. low carb, NHS gastric band..(15 years ago which helped but only ever got her to 16 stone before piling it back on) .. she has found one of the Mountjaro providers who will prescribe a maintenance dose...

But she can't afford it long term. It will be £189 per month without a discount.. AIBU to say I can pay this for her. She is my very best friend . I love her new found sense of self confidence.. and don't want it to go.. the money is not an issue for me . I am extremely comfortable and struggle to spend. However would love to help someone I love very much.

Just for complete transparency I had crept over into 'unhealthy' zone as also had osteoporosis in knees. Also took Mountjaro for 2 months and know how incredible it is. I have kept it off for 5 months without a maintenance dose .. it just reinforced healthy eating recipes for me . . But I haven't been morbidly obese

That is so so kind of you! Wish there were more people like you! You might find with her new confidence she will want to keep that confidence. When we start looking after our appearance (beauty&fashion etc), we start looking after the rest. I've just had a gastric sleeve after taking Wegovy for 3 months (personally did not work for me). However, there is a process in the NHS where she could possibly get it for free, but she needs to go through her GP. There is a process of joining a 22 week NHS, online weightloss group with a Dietician and Psychologist. You do it as a group and then you get one-to-one help afterwards. Once you have jumped through those hoops, they will put you on a weightloss drug. She really needs to speak with her GP.

ItTook9Years · 06/10/2024 18:20

Gladicalled · 06/10/2024 18:01

and you are right. It’s not almost 4 days a month. It’s almost 4 days every 6-8 weeks which is makes it fine. 🙄🙄

3.5 days (up to) every 6 weeks averages out to 2.5 days a month. Max. Rather different to the picture you tried to paint in misquoting me.

laraitopbanana · 06/10/2024 18:18

maddening · 06/10/2024 18:05

On 1000 cals with 12 hours exercise a week I lost 1 lb a month - you need to understand that calories are not the same for everyone- not all us fatties are fat because of gluttony, stupidity and laziness - there are some of us who put on weight living on what you eat to lose weight.

I am sorry you have to read so much non sense from people whom clearly have no sense or can’t read a room.

There are plenty of reason why people have weight on and noone knows why neither need to. It is called privacy, respect, non of your business 🌺

laraitopbanana · 06/10/2024 18:15

You sound lovely.

Maybe say you know someone who can have you a very big reduction (90% off) and if she wants, you can take it for her and offer the remaining 10% for her Xmas?

I know it is a lie but in that instance, that will preserve your friendship.

Good luck 🌺

maddening · 06/10/2024 18:05

ItTook9Years · 05/10/2024 19:56

I lost almost 3 stone in 3 months without any medication, just dietary changes. 6 in 6 with a very powerful drug doesn’t seem that clever. 🤷🏻‍♀️

On 1000 cals with 12 hours exercise a week I lost 1 lb a month - you need to understand that calories are not the same for everyone- not all us fatties are fat because of gluttony, stupidity and laziness - there are some of us who put on weight living on what you eat to lose weight.

NamechangeRugby · 06/10/2024 18:05

Gladicalled · 06/10/2024 17:42

Whilst I agree with some of your points. You are being disingenuous. Or rather coming across as disingenuous.

You are concerned that ASA rules are broken by threads like these and that could be harmful for vulnerable people. But have no problem with a poster who has clearly mislead and outright lied, who claims starving yourself for almost 4 days is a proven way to improve health. Both are damaging to vulnerable people. It’s not only damaging if it breaks ASA rules. And at this point, whilst I suspect it, there’s no proof this was meant to be advertising. And many people who do take MJ called out the suspiciousness of the thread early on. But as of yet, we have no idea who the Op is or their motivation.

But you aren’t concerned about other equally damaging things are posted on this thread. Or elsewhere.

You keep going on about one poster who says they eat 600cals a day. But keep ignoring the fact that other posters keep claiming losing weight can be done by just XYZ which includes starving yourself for days and saying it’s scientifically backed up, when it’s not. Even when one poster blatantly misled people.

You get shot down when talking about the risks, not because no one believes it. But because several posters have made claims that aren’t actually true and can’t back them up. And the people claiming they know all about the risks clearly haven’t read the research. Unlike a lot of the people who are actually taking it who have read it and keep up to date on new findings.

People post of low carb, intermittent fasting, fasting, competitive under eating and all sorts of things. Even to the point of lying. But the concern is that this thread might break ASA rules? The concern is that something that’s helping obese people might be being misused. That it might be helping obese people, but we should prioritise other people instead.

There’s been nasty and rude comments like ‘come one tell me how you got fat eating apples’. That’s really damaging to people already struggling. But that’s not a concern?

If someone vulnerable with an eating disorder reads this thread, what are they more likely to do? Go on line and pay a load of money out to try and obtain a prescription drug illegally. Or decide they could starve themselves for almost 4 days a month for free. Cause a woman here claimed she did and claimed it was backed up by science.

You briefly mention people buying knock off stuff. That’s where vulnerable people are more likely to get it. That’s more likely to lead to complications and hospital admission. But that’s just a small concern.

Your concern is disingenuous because you only have problem with people who think using MJ was the right decision for themselves. When people have pointed out the horrific misinformation from people is disapprove of people using Mj you have ignored it. Your concern is not for vulnerable people. It’s not for people who might have an eating disorder and try and use it anyway.

If your concern was genuine you would equally appalled at what has been written here as ‘facts’ regarding diet. By posters who have been purposely misleading people to convince them fat loss is easy for everyone.

Give over. I'm not going to dispute everyone on the thread. I have one point to make and I stuck with it.

You have misquoted me and misinterpreted me. I have never, ever even mentioned the poster on 600 cals. I have never, ever commented on what individuals eat or don't eat. You are all mixed up and angry, but it really shouldn't be with me!

Gladicalled · 06/10/2024 18:01

and you are right. It’s not almost 4 days a month. It’s almost 4 days every 6-8 weeks which is makes it fine. 🙄🙄

Gladicalled · 06/10/2024 17:59

ItTook9Years · 06/10/2024 17:51

@Gladicalled perhaps you could not misquote me. I never said I starve myself for 4 days a month.

There are studies which show fasting to be beneficial. There are others showing the opposite. You tried it and found it didn’t help you, it does help me. You are no more right than I am.

In general terms, there isn’t huge diversity in the human genome that would cause some people to put on weight eating 600 cals and others to maintain on 6000.

People drop dead exercising. Some from lifestyle choices. We don’t yet know what injectables do for non-diabetics, and I think opting for a route that involves injecting them for life is sub-optimal.

I do an 84 hour fast every 6-8 weeks. It would have been totally normal for humans to not eat for extended periods. Modern human bodies aren’t radically different to earlier human bodies.

This is what you said. You claim it would be totally normal for humans to not eat for days. That’s not a fact. Yet you stated it as a fact.

I didn’t say IF wasnt beneficial at all. Or beneficial for some people. I challenged your many false claims about it. I raised that more recent studies show it’s not great for women. And there you using your ALMOST 4 day starvation diet as a counter point to people who say they couldn’t do it. ‘Well I can do it for 84 hours and do it regular’. We know it was another attempt at ‘well I can why can’t you’.

Given the fact that you purposely tried to mislead people on this thread, have made up facts and claimed things to be true that are not, no one is worried about what you think is sub optimal. You even mislead about your home life in your ‘study of one’ to try and appear better than other people. So no one is worried about what you think is suboptimal for health.

MrsTerryPratchett · 06/10/2024 17:51

@Pinkrinse I do understand. But many people talk about still having food noise at various levels and it getting less effective over time. The placebo effect isn't 'fake' or 'just' anything.

Up to 80% of morphine's painkilling is placebo effect. What colour a pill is affects how effective it is. Environment, delivery, all aspects around the drug, they are all really impactful. That is not to say that morphine or these drugs aren't effective, just that there may be other effects going on at the same time. It might be a small, population-level effect, but I can almost guarantee it's there.

Food is all about psychology. Paying for a drug, however effective that drug is, will make a difference.