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To think that the middle classes are liars and actors?

418 replies

MargaretBrewer · 05/10/2024 12:37

I know this woman who I always assumed was middle class. Everything she says and values is a walking middle class stereotype. The couple live in a nice house, everything is nice. Forgive my surprise, then, when I found out that she was born on a council estate to parents who were often jobless. After some snooping around, I learned that her husband comes from more money, but his father actually began life as a builder - yes, a construction worker! - who rose to manage the (small) company before buying up a number of local estate agents. I never knew what the couple in question did until I learned that they are landlords to some shops in town. Their son went to a private school and struts around like he is prince of the county! When none of his grandparents were posh! And how is it that the husband and wife own so many properties in town?!

It reminds me of a doctor and his wife I know. I always thought they must come from solidly middle class, if not upper class backgrounds, given how they talk and behave. It turned out that both of them come from families that worked in steel!

And and and there is a writer who lives nearish to me. Single woman, carries herself with this gait and artistic flair that I assumed she must come from an UMC background. Turns out her father was a welder.

Why are these people so MC presenting?? I would never have guessed they had come from unglamorous backgrounds, and there are a few other 'friends' I suspect might be similar. Are the middle classes inherently actors? If so their snobbery is alarming to me!

Had to change my name for this.

OP posts:
SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 05/10/2024 15:34

WhereYouLeftIt · 05/10/2024 13:21

"Are the middle classes inherently actors? If so their snobbery is alarming to me!"

But surely what you've described is working class people adopting the mannerisms associated with the middle classes - so it's the workng classes acting/lying/being snobs? Confused

I agree, @WhereYouLeftIt - and it seems to me that the OP is generalising across a whole class, based only on a few examples.

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 05/10/2024 15:33

In my experience, builders often own multiple properties because they have the skills to do them up!

GivingitToGod · 05/10/2024 15:32

OP, you come across as a totally prejudiced snob. I am shocked by your post.
Please read it and reflect. I strongly advise unconscious bias training.
Astounding that people with opinions/prejudices like yours exist unless it is a wind up

pleasehelpwi3 · 05/10/2024 15:31

MargaretBrewer · 05/10/2024 12:37

I know this woman who I always assumed was middle class. Everything she says and values is a walking middle class stereotype. The couple live in a nice house, everything is nice. Forgive my surprise, then, when I found out that she was born on a council estate to parents who were often jobless. After some snooping around, I learned that her husband comes from more money, but his father actually began life as a builder - yes, a construction worker! - who rose to manage the (small) company before buying up a number of local estate agents. I never knew what the couple in question did until I learned that they are landlords to some shops in town. Their son went to a private school and struts around like he is prince of the county! When none of his grandparents were posh! And how is it that the husband and wife own so many properties in town?!

It reminds me of a doctor and his wife I know. I always thought they must come from solidly middle class, if not upper class backgrounds, given how they talk and behave. It turned out that both of them come from families that worked in steel!

And and and there is a writer who lives nearish to me. Single woman, carries herself with this gait and artistic flair that I assumed she must come from an UMC background. Turns out her father was a welder.

Why are these people so MC presenting?? I would never have guessed they had come from unglamorous backgrounds, and there are a few other 'friends' I suspect might be similar. Are the middle classes inherently actors? If so their snobbery is alarming to me!

Had to change my name for this.

I've never read so much drivel in my entire life.

ArseyVarsey · 05/10/2024 15:31

@Goxhound excellent sociological perspective and analysis there.
However, northern scumbags won’t be able to comprehend a jot of what you’ve said. Could you draw pictures?

kolalumps · 05/10/2024 15:31

Maybe the big lie is telling you they are from working class backgrounds so they seem more humble.

OhDearMuriel · 05/10/2024 15:30

Oh dear oh dear, how sad are you??
Welcome to the world.

newnamethanks · 05/10/2024 15:28

C+ for this, OP. Must try harder.

Goxhound · 05/10/2024 15:28

The Middle Class as "Liars and Actors": Social Mobility, Class Presentation, and Cultural Identity

The question raised in the excerpt—whether the middle classes are inherently "liars and actors"—is a complex one rooted in the dynamics of social mobility, cultural identity, and class presentation. The notion that individuals who rise from working-class origins to middle-class status might be performing or hiding their background taps into wider sociological themes surrounding class fluidity, social status, and the perception of authenticity. This essay explores these themes, considering whether the middle classes are indeed "actors," or if such perceptions reveal deeper anxieties about social mobility and cultural presentation.

  1. The Middle Class: A Complex Definition

The term "middle class" is often ambiguous, varying significantly by region, profession, and cultural context. It typically refers to a socioeconomic group that falls between the working class and the upper class, often characterised by stable income, property ownership, and access to education and cultural resources. However, what constitutes "middle class" is not solely determined by economic factors; cultural markers such as taste, manners, and values play a significant role.

Historically, social theorists such as Pierre Bourdieu have argued that class identity is as much about cultural capital as it is about economic capital. Cultural capital includes knowledge, tastes, and social practices that distinguish one class from another. Middle-class individuals may adopt certain behaviours, language, and aesthetic preferences that signal their status, whether or not they come from a long-standing middle-class background.

  1. Social Mobility and Class Fluidity

One of the most striking aspects of the cases discussed is the revelation that individuals who present as middle class may come from working-class or lower-middle-class backgrounds. This reflects the phenomenon of social mobility, where individuals or families move between social strata based on changes in income, education, or occupation. In the UK, social mobility has historically been linked to access to education, such as attending grammar schools or private schools, and gaining professional qualifications.

The middle classes often benefit from such mobility, but the transition from a working-class background to a middle-class lifestyle can involve significant cultural adaptation. Sociologists argue that individuals who move between classes often feel the need to adopt the norms and values of their new social group, in order to fit in and be accepted. This process can lead to what is sometimes perceived as a form of “acting,” as they navigate new expectations and cultural norms.

  1. Cultural Capital and Class Performance

Bourdieu’s concept of habitus, or the ingrained habits, skills, and dispositions that individuals acquire through their social environment, is critical to understanding how people "perform" class. Those who grow up in working-class families but later become middle class may learn to mimic or adopt the cultural codes of their new class. This is not necessarily deceitful but part of the adaptation process as they align themselves with the values and expectations of their new social milieu.

The cases mentioned in the post highlight individuals whose outward presentation—through material possessions, social behaviour, or speech—aligns with middle-class stereotypes, despite their origins. These presentations can be seen as forms of cultural capital, which they have acquired through education, social networks, or new professional roles. Their "performance" of middle-class values, therefore, can be understood as a survival mechanism in a society that values upward mobility and rewards conformity to the dominant culture.

  1. Perceptions of Authenticity and Snobbery

The surprise and frustration expressed in the post appear to stem from an underlying assumption that people should remain "true" to their class origins and that crossing class boundaries involves an element of dishonesty or snobbery. This taps into broader societal anxieties about authenticity—the idea that one’s class identity should remain consistent with their origins, and that any deviation is somehow false or disingenuous.

Snobbery, often defined as looking down on others based on class or social standing, is a behaviour commonly associated with the middle and upper classes. However, what is perceived as snobbery may sometimes be a defensive reaction by those who have climbed the social ladder, who feel the need to distance themselves from their working-class origins in order to secure their new status. This can manifest in behaviours that seem elitist or exclusionary, but may in fact be rooted in insecurity or fear of falling back down the social hierarchy.

Moreover, the idea of “snobbery” in this context may also be linked to status anxiety, a concept popularised by philosopher Alain de Botton. Individuals who have achieved middle-class status might feel a constant pressure to maintain their position and demonstrate their success, which can lead to exaggerated displays of cultural or social superiority. This, in turn, might be perceived as acting or snobbery by those who feel excluded from or alienated by middle-class norms.

  1. Conclusion

In conclusion, the notion that the middle classes are "liars and actors" is an oversimplification of the complex social processes at play. Social mobility and cultural adaptation often necessitate a shift in behaviours and values, which can be perceived as disingenuous by those who remain in their original class. However, this is not necessarily an act of deceit but a natural consequence of navigating different social environments and expectations.

The cases discussed reflect broader concerns about authenticity, status, and cultural identity in a society where class boundaries are both fluid and rigid. What might seem like snobbery or acting is, in many cases, a reflection of the pressures and anxieties associated with maintaining social mobility and the cultural capital that comes with it. Rather than viewing the middle classes as inherently deceptive, it is more productive to understand these behaviours as part of the ongoing negotiation of class identity in a rapidly changing society.

ArseyVarsey · 05/10/2024 15:26

I know who has started this thread!
Fine statesman and pillar of the community Jacob Rees Smug himself! Margaret,we thank you.

To think that the middle classes are liars and actors?
ANGIEPANGY77 · 05/10/2024 15:25

This reply has been deleted

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GoodbyeToulouse · 05/10/2024 15:25

Autumnismyfavouritetimeofyear · 05/10/2024 15:12

I think to consciously drop your accent is sacrificing a little bit of your soul. It kind of smacks of insecurity too.

But it is pretty well established that going to university does (or used to) modify peoples accents. Being around lots of people from other parts of the country, and needing to be understood, seems to lessen strong accents a bit. Its not always deliberate.

Yes but in the case I described it was a conscious effort to reinvent herself. That is quite different.

DoreenonTill8 · 05/10/2024 15:23

Ensconcedinvelvet · 05/10/2024 13:49

This is up there with "I met a woman outside in the sun and she was wearing sunglasses and isn't that rude?" for batshittery...but at least that OP had the good grace to admit she must be being unreasonable when she got rinsed for it.

Oh yes!! Scandalised the friend had sunglasses on in a pub garden and didn't remove the glasses to introduce herself!! 😆😎

Hakunatomato · 05/10/2024 15:23

I hope you are taking the piss because if not, you sound like a hideous individual! So judgemental and nasty! Bet you have a lot of friends with an attitude like yours! You seem to be deeply unpleasant.

Gogogo12345 · 05/10/2024 15:20

SocksShmocks · 05/10/2024 13:00

This is going to shock you OP but my grandad was a plasterer and I went to private school.

Lol I went to private school and my Dad was a postman. We also had lessons in elocution and posture etc

CruCru · 05/10/2024 15:19

This is an interesting thread. I suspect that the OP is taking the piss.

It used to be that most people were working class. The OP refers to people working in steel - I don’t think that’s even much of an option any more. My own family worked in the shipyards in Newcastle. What we tend to think of as “working class” occupations have been shut down.

Nowadays most people are (more or less) middle class. Some of those middle class people will have descended from the working classes.

sussexman · 05/10/2024 15:18

MargaretBrewer · 05/10/2024 12:49

Okay, the response was as I feared.

I'll reword it a little: I'm simply surprised. Can a person's behaviour and speech shift throughout their life? If so , they must be performing to some degree

I'm loving MargaretBrewer as a name change!

Everyone "performs" to some extent, people engage in social situations in what they perceive to be appropriate ways unless they actually have no filter. How people see things also changes throughout their lives, and as the company they keep changes. You seem to think this is in some way reprehensible rather than human beings living their lives and engaging with each other. Quite frankly I don;t see why my grandparent's income in 1935 should determine my social engagement now, nor indeed should yours.

SoNiceToComeHomeTo · 05/10/2024 15:17

Not sure which country you live in, but there has been upward and downward mobility in the UK for a long time and you can’t tell people’s economic/social heritage by looking at or listening to them. Or is this a wind up?

SerafinasGoose · 05/10/2024 15:16

KindOf · 05/10/2024 14:08

Clearly the proles should stay in their lane, munching on jellied eels, breaking into merry choruses of ‘Knees Up, Mother Brown’, and occasionally breaking off their scrap dealing to chirp ‘Awright, Guvnor!’

Only if you're a Londoner.

Further north you'd be shouting 'Hey up!' and breeding whippets.

HelpMeFindAName · 05/10/2024 15:13

MrsPeregrine · 05/10/2024 13:51

Oh, and being in a skilled trade doesn’t automatically make you working class. My dad is a builder and owns a building business which is doing very well (probably not so well after Reeve’s autumn budget kicks in). He’s probably earning more per year than any of the directors do at my place of work. I know he earns way more than I do each year and I’m in a so-called professional role.

Actually, your "class" isn't determined by your income.

Much as I hate the concept, typically your "class" is determined by your parents and your background and how you were raised. For the duration of your life, even if your situation changes, your "class " will not.

From quiet observation, no matter how wealthy or poor a person may present, you can, rightly or wrongly, nearly always tell which "class" /background they were born into.

It is fascinating and sad in equal measures to see how influential and burdensome "class" can be.

since1986 · 05/10/2024 15:13

Middle class is a lifestyle and personality you can acquire, OP, or just even be someone that is naturally that way inclined. It isn't always something you're born in to.

Just because someones parents seem 'rough' doesn't mean they are either. Dad may have been in 'steel' but may also have been a very intelligent man with a good work ethic and even an interest in the arts ffs. Your post is grim.

PerkyShark · 05/10/2024 15:13

How fucking dare they??? Poor people shouldn't be able to behave like that!!! Are you for real OP?!?

Kristophersmum · 05/10/2024 15:12

Definitely Goodbye Toulouse
Dropping accents can be a form of insecurity and unfortunately people judge...sometimes correctly and sometimes totally incorrectly. We are all human.beings after all and not robots ! We live - We learn. I'm generation x , my son is a gen alpha z. Bluebell OP has def illustrated alot of Victorian thought processes !
Creation nation- re:- Catherine's accent She was ever Eliza Dolittle however it's very clear from.past recordings of her that her mid England accent has now changed to a more "regal blue "cut accent either throu elocution lessons or self taught throu association !
I went to uni and my accent always goes up and down like a yo yo sometimes - as I like to mix it up sometimes ....kept my brain cells alive lol Our language is wonderful as other languages are as well ! The vikings would have had social classifications and tribal national also .... part of being human to be able to enjoy being able to use your voice in many ways !

.

EveningSpread · 05/10/2024 15:12

All I get from this is that the OP makes assumptions about people’s backgrounds that they later find out are incorrect.

And that OP feels very confused - and even lied to - because it turns out class and wealth are complex and can seem to shift across generations.