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To think that the middle classes are liars and actors?

418 replies

MargaretBrewer · 05/10/2024 12:37

I know this woman who I always assumed was middle class. Everything she says and values is a walking middle class stereotype. The couple live in a nice house, everything is nice. Forgive my surprise, then, when I found out that she was born on a council estate to parents who were often jobless. After some snooping around, I learned that her husband comes from more money, but his father actually began life as a builder - yes, a construction worker! - who rose to manage the (small) company before buying up a number of local estate agents. I never knew what the couple in question did until I learned that they are landlords to some shops in town. Their son went to a private school and struts around like he is prince of the county! When none of his grandparents were posh! And how is it that the husband and wife own so many properties in town?!

It reminds me of a doctor and his wife I know. I always thought they must come from solidly middle class, if not upper class backgrounds, given how they talk and behave. It turned out that both of them come from families that worked in steel!

And and and there is a writer who lives nearish to me. Single woman, carries herself with this gait and artistic flair that I assumed she must come from an UMC background. Turns out her father was a welder.

Why are these people so MC presenting?? I would never have guessed they had come from unglamorous backgrounds, and there are a few other 'friends' I suspect might be similar. Are the middle classes inherently actors? If so their snobbery is alarming to me!

Had to change my name for this.

OP posts:
NowImNotDoingIt · 05/10/2024 17:41

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 05/10/2024 17:38

Absolutely, OP. These povvos really ought to know their place.

Yup how dare they "act" middle class with their lowly roots?

How is OP supposed to recognise the riff raff when they're well spoken and have good jobs.

Oh the horror!

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 05/10/2024 17:38

Absolutely, OP. These povvos really ought to know their place.

KindOf · 05/10/2024 17:37

Kristophersmum · 05/10/2024 14:26

My view was the OP was trying to discuss how people can be acting up or acting " fake" and trying to state how such "lying / covering up " seems to be detrimental etc etc. I was suggesting it's valid to some extent as if you understand psychology and history you can see how humans have this inclination. Anthropology also shows this ... I can image Mr caveman & Ms cave women and their cave kids would be trying to show how better they'll were to their neighbouring cavemen lol. People are different, deep down I think we all know what's right and wrong . I try to be

an optimist & have a thirst for knowledge. My background is varied and I meet all walks of life. I've seen all sorts trying to create better pictures of themselves & life in general - can be a laugh watching it all and I'm thankful I understand why people act like this .... doesn't make it right ... and yes would be good of people just to be themselves and realise we are one after all. Shakespeare comes to.mind .... re:- the world is a stage & .... full of actors etc etc lol

The OP is calling people ‘liars and actors’ because she was labouring under some kind of delusion about their class origins. There’s no evidence whatsoever anyone was misleading the OP, only that she’d built up some kind of narrative about them that turned out not to be the reality. I’m not ‘pretending’ to be a senior academic who likes opera any more than I’m pretending not to be the daughter of a semi-literate binman, or putting on an accent.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 05/10/2024 17:01

MargaretBrewer · 05/10/2024 12:49

Okay, the response was as I feared.

I'll reword it a little: I'm simply surprised. Can a person's behaviour and speech shift throughout their life? If so , they must be performing to some degree

@MargaretBrewer - when a baby is born, she or he cannot walk or talk. The vast majority learn to do both - a major change from how they begun, I am sure you will agree. Are they ‘pretending’ or ‘acting’ because they have learned new skills? Of course not.

Everybody changes during their lifetime - they learn things, new behaviours, new habits - they grow and develop. This is a perfectly normal and natural thing, and the vast majority of people are simply being who they are - not acting.

Waitfortheguinness · 05/10/2024 16:49

Give your head a wobble.

steff13 · 05/10/2024 16:48

I cannot fathom why an anyone would care.

AutumnalCosiness · 05/10/2024 16:47

Just wondering if you are aware that SOME people even pretend to be a different sex too OP...?

It's a mad old world 🤷🏻‍♀️

Savingthehedgehogs · 05/10/2024 16:47

BarbaraHoward · 05/10/2024 16:39

The peasants are getting ideas above their stations.

It’s two way street. The UC can also fall on very hard times - it’s not just a one way ticket upwards. You make a good point, because it can create a great deal of resentment and bitterness. Especially if one has grown up in lavish surroundings and a lineage of great achievements.

AutumnalCosiness · 05/10/2024 16:46

Working class people aren't just extras to provide regional flavour in the background you know

🤣🤣🤣

AutumnalCosiness · 05/10/2024 16:45

MargaretBrewer · 05/10/2024 12:49

Okay, the response was as I feared.

I'll reword it a little: I'm simply surprised. Can a person's behaviour and speech shift throughout their life? If so , they must be performing to some degree

What class are you?

AutumnalCosiness · 05/10/2024 16:44

Why do you care OP?

BarbaraHoward · 05/10/2024 16:39

BCBird · 05/10/2024 14:59

I stopped reading . Why are you bothered?

The peasants are getting ideas above their stations.

LaughingCat · 05/10/2024 16:28

I’m solidly middle class - my mum is the eldest of seven kids, brought up in a two-bedroom council flat in Holland by my Opa, a miner who became a plumber when the local mines shut down, and my Oma, a cleaner. My Opa’s mum got pregnant by a soldier passing through town (the scandal). My Oma’s parents were a poacher and a washerwoman. So my mum was solid working class, though both of her grandmothers’ parents were middle class (but hey, get knocked up and left to be a teen single mum or run away with the local poacher and you get cut out 😂). She came over here as an au pair and ended up being the head of buying for a global home catalogue business (helps when you speak six languages!)

My dad probably was more middle class - his dad learned to be a bomb technician in WW2 and went on to work as a chemist thanks to that training, rising to become head of Ciba’s South Africa division. His mum was a housewife who unfortunately died when my dad was young. But go a couple of generations back from him and they were mill workers and the like, that came over from Ireland. So the opposite story, I guess!

I had private schooling, a nice holiday a year, horse riding since I was old enough to wobble about on chubby legs. We weren’t rich enough to be upper class, I had too much privilege to be working class. I now have a job that I could mostly do from home but it doesn’t pay well enough for me to be comfortable about retirement or affording kids. We live in a nice house with a mortgage but on an ex-council estate. So I figure I’m pretty middle class. My mum is as well - she now runs her own Pilates studio (she retrained) and again, has a nice little semi that’s a million miles away from a council flat in rural Holland but her retirement won’t be cruises and galas lol. Her sister’s probably UMC now (kids went to boarding schools, several nice holidays a year, a flat in Marbella and a wine cellar that I’m very envious of, and the knowledge to make good use of it to boot!).

I have a friend who was brought up as a minor lordling, I guess, with ski seasons and overseas boarding schools and Monaco red carpets, who’s happy living in a three-roomed flat as a welder.

What I’m trying to say is that it doesn’t really matter what your origins are or . You’re not lying, you are just who you are. Your opportunities, choices and those of others all play into what you become. Was my mum, in that council flat as a kid, somehow middle class because her parents would save up every penny to take them to the theatre sometimes, or listened to classical music or put a huge emphasis on education and learning everything they could? Financially speaking, I guess being middle class is basically never qualifying for benefits but never having enough to feel comfortable massively splashing out, either. It’s the slightly anxious, middle-ground.

So basically, what is class? Is it where you live? How much money you have? Where you come from? Where you feel comfortable? It’s a complex, highly subjective thing with so many factors that impact on it.

You seem to have a pretty narrow view of what it means though, @MargaretBrewer, that suggests you feel that if you are born into a role, you and your kids should stay in your lane. How dare a privately schooled child of common workers ‘lord it about’ as if he’s middle class? How dare a woman with a keen interest in the arts and culture, and has made the money to fully explore them, act as though she’s UMC when she came from such lowly beginnings?

Me? I guess I’m going to carry on being middle-class. Because I probably am, despite my ancestors’ origins. And I’m not going to worry my head about whether I, or anyone else, truly am or not.

Autumnismyfavouritetimeofyear · 05/10/2024 16:16

GoodbyeToulouse · 05/10/2024 15:25

Yes but in the case I described it was a conscious effort to reinvent herself. That is quite different.

Ok, a conscious reinvention is one thing (goes the same for the posh kids who speak like they should be on TOWIE). But plenty of people sound or live differently to how they were brought up, and the OP seems to say they are all faking and acting. Which I disagree with.

GoodbyeToulouse · 05/10/2024 16:10

FKAT · 05/10/2024 16:05

Or she got pig sick of nice middle class graduates taking the piss out of the Brummy accent and thought it was easier to blend in.

Employers are also prejudiced against regional accents. My (ironically West Midlands) public school boss used to say my accent was too 'estuary'.

Working class people aren't just extras to provide regional flavour in the background you know.

It's fitting the "extras" narrative if they feel they have to reinvent themselves because of an accent. If any idiot is prejudiced, it's their own narrow mindedness and why should someone play to that? I have a Scottish accent and have a very senior professional role. Never felt the need to drop it to fit in or to prove myself. I left the proving myself to my abilities.

FKAT · 05/10/2024 16:05

GoodbyeToulouse · 05/10/2024 15:02

I remember reading about someone came from a working class background, went to a good university, 'married up' and consciously dropped their (I think it was) Brummy accent to get ahead. I totally get that education can change people, their habits, their social circles etc. but I think to consciously drop your accent is sacrificing a little bit of your soul. It kind of smacks of insecurity too.

Or she got pig sick of nice middle class graduates taking the piss out of the Brummy accent and thought it was easier to blend in.

Employers are also prejudiced against regional accents. My (ironically West Midlands) public school boss used to say my accent was too 'estuary'.

Working class people aren't just extras to provide regional flavour in the background you know.

NowImNotDoingIt · 05/10/2024 15:58

MargaretBrewer · 05/10/2024 12:37

I know this woman who I always assumed was middle class. Everything she says and values is a walking middle class stereotype. The couple live in a nice house, everything is nice. Forgive my surprise, then, when I found out that she was born on a council estate to parents who were often jobless. After some snooping around, I learned that her husband comes from more money, but his father actually began life as a builder - yes, a construction worker! - who rose to manage the (small) company before buying up a number of local estate agents. I never knew what the couple in question did until I learned that they are landlords to some shops in town. Their son went to a private school and struts around like he is prince of the county! When none of his grandparents were posh! And how is it that the husband and wife own so many properties in town?!

It reminds me of a doctor and his wife I know. I always thought they must come from solidly middle class, if not upper class backgrounds, given how they talk and behave. It turned out that both of them come from families that worked in steel!

And and and there is a writer who lives nearish to me. Single woman, carries herself with this gait and artistic flair that I assumed she must come from an UMC background. Turns out her father was a welder.

Why are these people so MC presenting?? I would never have guessed they had come from unglamorous backgrounds, and there are a few other 'friends' I suspect might be similar. Are the middle classes inherently actors? If so their snobbery is alarming to me!

Had to change my name for this.

Are you exactly the same as you were as a child? You haven't changed any mannerisms , or words you use , or habits ?

People evolve, they change, they adapt to their own environment.

I don't sound like a russian "baddie" from a bad Arnold Schwarzenegger movie like I did when I first moved to the UK. That doesn't mean I'm faking or acting

Smallsalt · 05/10/2024 15:48

Do you expect them to go around in flat caps or wear pyjamas to ASDA?

And actually, why do you care? I mean, why would you give this a micro second of head space let alone "snoop".
The only alarming snobbery on display is your reverse kind.

For the record I work in opera, have horses and live in a posh house. I was brought up on a council estate, but, brace yourself, my Dad was a head teacher.
I presume this will truly blow your mind.

kitsuneghost · 05/10/2024 15:47

My parents are working class and very well spoken and turn out very well. Not all working class are common as muck.

Also you are don't have to be stuck in a certain lifestyle because that's how your grandparents started out.
Believe it or not there is such a thing as social mobility

SerenityNowSerenityNow · 05/10/2024 15:44

Why are these people so MC presenting?? I would never have guessed they had come from unglamorous backgrounds, and there are a few other 'friends' I suspect might be similar. Are the middle classes inherently actors? If so their snobbery is alarming to me!

I guess you'd think I was 'middle class presenting'. University academic, lovely house in a gorgeous village etc.

You would also consider my upbringing 'unglamorous'. Teenage parents, lived on a council estate, dad was a welder and mum worked in a factory.

My question is ... why does it matter? 🤷🏼‍♀️

olivehater · 05/10/2024 15:44

Surely you can more by more of yourself ( and strut about as you say) if you’ve made the money yourself rather than if it’s been handed to you from birth!

damebarbaracartlandsbiggestfan · 05/10/2024 15:41

One of my forebears started working as a coal miner at 15 but was a huge classical music fan, all of their life.
The working class covered most of the population 100 years ago. Many of those people back then who did hard manual jobs were of course sensitive, intelligent and spoke well and would have loved the opportunity to experience travel, culture and different foods when/if they could, same as most people now!

Savingthehedgehogs · 05/10/2024 15:39

When is our country ever going to get over the class wars? It’s so divisive.

I find it so DEPRESSING that it’s even a thing these days, and I refuse to even engage in the language - a human being is a human being, and class is a societal construct and that’s it! Honestly I am exasperated, and in my world everyone is worthy of respect, opportunity and value.

GiddyRobin · 05/10/2024 15:39

This is so bizarre. Why are you even thinking about it? Why does it matter?

I fail to see how it's a "performance" if people subtly change over the course of their lives, or better themselves socially and financially.

I grew up very working class. My dad was a labourer. Moved from Ireland when he was very young. However, he was also greatly interested in poetry and literature. I had elocution lessons as a child because I had a bit of a lisp, apparently. So a lot of the time I've a typical RP accent. Other times, the Irish seeps in when I'm speaking to family.

I recieved postgraduate degrees and now have a fab career, and I'm mortgage free in my 30s. I'm not pretending to be anything. I'm just living my life. Would you prefer if I introduced myself whilst telling people about my dad's upbringing?

DH is Norwegian. For clarity, he unconsciously falls into a RP-esque accent when he's trying to make himself fully understood in English. Does that mean he's pretending? Is he trying to hide that he's from Norway?

This thread is insane.

GivingitToGod · 05/10/2024 15:34

LoftLaughLoads · 05/10/2024 14:06

Nasty snobbishness like this is very lower class of course, but also exceptionally outdated. Who the fuck cares whether anyone came from poorer or richer parents? People are free to be themselves and the daughter of a dustman and a dinner lady is perfectly capable of becoming a high court justice and developing a fondness for opera. Nobody owes you conformity to your preconceived stereotypes so they aren't "pretending" anything when they fail to exhibit the traits your prejudiced mind expects of them.

Brilliant post, thank you for so eloquently describing how I feel.
From a proud professional whose mum was a cleaner! ( thank u mum)