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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

There’s no way this can work is there?

162 replies

Pickledpicklez · 04/10/2024 17:41

If there is, please advise.

dm is getting elderly, lives in other end of country. Time is coming to think of more long term plans. Not quite yet but in the next 3 years.

as a working theory we’ve said, well both sell our homes and buy a larger house with an annex for her. Perfect, except there seems to be no way to make this actually possible as no one will let us view a house because we’ve got not one but two houses to sell. So 2 chains.

Dh and I would like another child, so our family may expand. And we don’t have enough savings nor is it affordable mortgage wise to take out a second mortgage especially as we’d be looking at a 5 bed house with an annex, either as an out building or side of the house. We’d need it already built and we’d need to close to my kids school (one of the best in the city so seems foolish to move from the catchment area)

we don’t have enough room as is for dm to sell up and move in now. Plus dm isn’t an easy woman, the annex for some separate living conditions is an absolute must.

only thing I can think of is bridging loan (high risk) and moving my house to consent to let on interest only to remove the capital and maxing out affordability, BUT likely no high street lender would touch us because it’s so high risk and even writing down it’s likely not affordable.

one option is that she needs to sell toute suite and move into a cheap rental but who knows how long it would be til we could find a house that ticks all the boxes

anyone had similar and can help me.

OP posts:
Pickledpicklez · 04/10/2024 18:38

Skate76 · 04/10/2024 18:28

We had exactly the same issue with my dad. We got both houses ready to sell then he put his on the market first and once he'd accepted an offer on his we put ours on the market and he moved in with us so we were only selling one house while looking for properties to move to. It all came together, you may be cramped in your house for a bit but it'll be great when you all move together to your new fab big house 💐

We don’t have the bedrooms, and I just can’t. I honestly can’t, she’s too much. She’s got a lot of opinions and shares them, there’s also just no space, I don’t think it’s fair on DH to have her just there all the time, I think it would be fair to him, it is quite suffocating. Hence why the only option is an annex

OP posts:
Pickledpicklez · 04/10/2024 18:34

ohdaisydaisy · 04/10/2024 18:28

Don't do it! For either parent. You could quite easily spend the next 20+ years as a carer. That's the best part of your life on hold. I get on really well with my mum, but I know living together would really damage our relationship and I'd end up resenting her - and that's without needing to be her carer! I love her to bits but even a two week holiday would be pushing it.

What about YOUR family? You need to put time and effort into your marriage, and time and effort into being a great mum. And most importantly make time for YOU! Don't sacrifice your life for others. As they say "don't set yourself on fire just to keep others warm".

It might be a cultural thing on your husband's side, but tough. That's not what's best for everyone. You'll have a much better relationship if you live apart. My mum has carers four times a day and a cleaner. I visit several times a week, but when I visit I'm not having to do her washing or help her change her incontinence pants, instead we go to the garden centre, go to the theatre, visit a national trust place. Mum has only got a couple of years left at best, but I'm going to make damn sure I enjoy them with her and that means spending time enjoying tea and cake in a cafe, not wiping her bum!

Oh I do so so agree with this and I think I’d blink and then bam I’d be a pensioner too

OP posts:
Pickledpicklez · 04/10/2024 18:32

^ lost my train of thought but what I was saying is using the equity from my house and all of hers our mortgage would be substantially less than what we have now, which would be a nice asset for us in our retirement to downsize one day and have extra capital

does anyone know if houses with annexes are hard to sell on?

OP posts:
Pickledpicklez · 04/10/2024 18:30

SoloSofa24 · 04/10/2024 18:22

As someone who had to care for elderly disabled parents for more than a decade, I can say there was no way I would ever have wanted to move in together. My own house was an absolutely essential refuge to get away from the stress of it.

If you browse through posts on the Elderly Parents board on MN, you will find many stressed carers, but very few of them have parents living with them, and most of them would run away screaming at the idea of it, I think.

And interestingly, although my own grandmother lived with us for many years when I was a child, my own mother never even suggested the idea to me, I think because she knew how difficult it had been for her coping with her mother in the household and she didn't want to inflict the same on me.

both sets of GMs lived with my mum… she still suggests it.

But the annex for me is a non negotiable, and then if she needs to move at a later date then we’d all need to move again, which is right faff. In my head I was trying to head that off at pass. Save stamp duty etc.

plus if we have another child we’d need to upsize for another bedroom and study.

OP posts:
Skate76 · 04/10/2024 18:28

We had exactly the same issue with my dad. We got both houses ready to sell then he put his on the market first and once he'd accepted an offer on his we put ours on the market and he moved in with us so we were only selling one house while looking for properties to move to. It all came together, you may be cramped in your house for a bit but it'll be great when you all move together to your new fab big house 💐

Pandasnacks · 04/10/2024 18:28

Can she just not sell her house and buy one in the same town as you? Separation is good and the whole process would be easier. Is she very keen to live with you?

chocciemonster39 · 04/10/2024 18:28

OP, echoing what other PPs have said, I think you need to consider and research really carefully whether your mum moving in with you (even in an annex) is a good idea financially and for the family as a whole. From experience of my grandparents living with us as a kid (my GM was a very difficult person) the caring responsibilities took a big toll on my DM and she wasn’t able to give time snd emotional support to us kids. If your DM moves in and her health deteriorated, who is going to look after her and how will this work with work/finances and your DC? Will there be enough time and attention to go round?

ohdaisydaisy · 04/10/2024 18:28

Don't do it! For either parent. You could quite easily spend the next 20+ years as a carer. That's the best part of your life on hold. I get on really well with my mum, but I know living together would really damage our relationship and I'd end up resenting her - and that's without needing to be her carer! I love her to bits but even a two week holiday would be pushing it.

What about YOUR family? You need to put time and effort into your marriage, and time and effort into being a great mum. And most importantly make time for YOU! Don't sacrifice your life for others. As they say "don't set yourself on fire just to keep others warm".

It might be a cultural thing on your husband's side, but tough. That's not what's best for everyone. You'll have a much better relationship if you live apart. My mum has carers four times a day and a cleaner. I visit several times a week, but when I visit I'm not having to do her washing or help her change her incontinence pants, instead we go to the garden centre, go to the theatre, visit a national trust place. Mum has only got a couple of years left at best, but I'm going to make damn sure I enjoy them with her and that means spending time enjoying tea and cake in a cafe, not wiping her bum!

RickyGervaislovesdogs · 04/10/2024 18:24

I can confidently say, working in both housing, benefits and fraud that any kind of ‘deprivation’ is unfounded. You have to prove it firstly which is extremely difficult, impossible in fact. You basically have to say “yes, my DM sold her house knowing she would have to go to a care home and we would inherit- and we did this on purpose and she agreed to it”.
No successful case in 20 years.
Your DM would also have to need a home pretty fast, we can only ask for three months bank statements for a start. I’m presuming she doesn’t have dementia and is sound of mind. It’s her money, her house and she can do what she sees fit.

For any naysayers, contact your local council and make a FOI request.

PS your reasons are sound so there’s also that!

Xmasbaby11 · 04/10/2024 18:23

I think I'd want your DM to move local to you asap, in her own place. As her needs change, you can buy in help and do what you can yourself. Being local will help hugely in seeing her needs and organising care. You can move in together at a later point if you still want to and if it works out money wise. You may never live together but if she is nearby, you can see her regularly and move forwards from that.

To be honest, if your DC are very young and you may have more, it will be a nightmare for you trying to support DM from a distance.

SoloSofa24 · 04/10/2024 18:22

As someone who had to care for elderly disabled parents for more than a decade, I can say there was no way I would ever have wanted to move in together. My own house was an absolutely essential refuge to get away from the stress of it.

If you browse through posts on the Elderly Parents board on MN, you will find many stressed carers, but very few of them have parents living with them, and most of them would run away screaming at the idea of it, I think.

And interestingly, although my own grandmother lived with us for many years when I was a child, my own mother never even suggested the idea to me, I think because she knew how difficult it had been for her coping with her mother in the household and she didn't want to inflict the same on me.

Pickledpicklez · 04/10/2024 18:15

I did post on another username before and the gist of the thread was yeah plan for the future they’ll need to move in for at least a period of time

OP posts:
Choux · 04/10/2024 18:15

For people with funds state paid for carers don't exist. You don't seem very well informed of what her future care needs might be. How old is she and what is her health like now?

SoloSofa24 · 04/10/2024 18:15

You describe your mother as 'not an easy woman', but you are planning to tie your finances and your living arrangements to her for the next decade or two or three? Why?? It sounds like a recipe for disaster. Is it just because you will be able to afford a larger home this way than by yourselves?

I would keep your finances and homes separate, but help her move to a suitable flat near you. That way you can provide support as needed/wanted but aren't assumed to be on hand as a 24-hour carer, and if any of your circumstances change, you aren't all tied into a large shared property.

And think of the impact on your child (and any future children) of your time and attention being diverted to their grandmother. If she becomes totally dependent on you, what happens when you want to go away on holiday, for example?

You haven't said how old she is, but I presume if you are still of an age where you are thinking of having another child, she is probably no older than her 70s, and she could live for another 20 years or more.

If she will be left with spare funds after downsizing, maybe you could draw up a formal loan agreement for her to help you buy a bigger house, though of course you might have to repay this if she needed to go into a care home.

Pickledpicklez · 04/10/2024 18:13

FerienInLipizza · 04/10/2024 18:04

Take care that she is not deliberately reducing her assets in the situation where she needs state care as they will come after the value of her lost asset to pay for her care.

Honestly, I would speak to a solicitor that deals with this sort of thing to get clarification before you proceed.

Yeah that’s a very good point!

i guess my thinking is there or will be a time when her living in a separate home doesn’t work. Ie to bridge a gap if she needs state carers they won’t come out at 3am…

OP posts:
Choux · 04/10/2024 18:12

It's easy for your husband to say they will both end up living with you when, everyone her knows that you will be the one doing the personal care of both elderly ladies. Blooming cheek of him!

Choux · 04/10/2024 18:10

I wouldn't be banking on getting any state help. She can obviously afford to pay for carers and care home fees from her house proceeds, saving and pension income.

If you think you will get any state help in the next few years because her money is tied up in hour house, you should expect a full financial review.

I don't understand why you would be looking to become the full time carer of your difficult mother (who could get even more difficult as she ages) when you also might want to have another child and you presumably want to be a good parent to your existing child. Is this a money motivated decision?

Pickledpicklez · 04/10/2024 18:10

BeeCucumber · 04/10/2024 18:02

I believe that @Hoppinggreen is trying to warn you that this is a very, very bad idea. What does your DH and DC think of it? It’s a life changing decision and once done cannot be undone.

My kids are very young.

dh was the one who said we need to accept both our dms are going to end up with us, different time periods as my dm is so much older than his. He’s from a culture where parents always live with the child in old age

but it does worry me!

OP posts:
km21 · 04/10/2024 18:09

Recommend the supported living option if there are suitable schemes local to you. There are a number of private ones or Anchor Housing schemes for rentals.

FerienInLipizza · 04/10/2024 18:04

Take care that she is not deliberately reducing her assets in the situation where she needs state care as they will come after the value of her lost asset to pay for her care.

Honestly, I would speak to a solicitor that deals with this sort of thing to get clarification before you proceed.

BeeCucumber · 04/10/2024 18:02

I believe that @Hoppinggreen is trying to warn you that this is a very, very bad idea. What does your DH and DC think of it? It’s a life changing decision and once done cannot be undone.

Doggymummar · 04/10/2024 18:00

My friend is doing this at the moment. Has sold her own house in another town. Will rent a place in my town and same town as her mum and puts mums for sale then looks to buy a joint property

Pickledpicklez · 04/10/2024 17:58

Hoppinggreen · 04/10/2024 17:52

You said she was difficult
You want another child
You don't want to move out of the catchment for your childrens school
Its going to be difficult to arrange
You will end up caring for her

I’m the only relative that would anyway but do you mean it would be more challenging to get state help if needed?

OP posts:
Pickledpicklez · 04/10/2024 17:55

Choux · 04/10/2024 17:49

My mum's lovely but I still wouldn't have moved in with her as she aged.

In the end she got dementia. Dad was her carer but when he died I lived with her for two weeks while waiting for her care home place to become available. I literally couldn't leave her alone for a minute. She also had carers for personal care - it's hard to shower and toilet your parent.

She is now in a care home. How would that work finance wise if you have pooled your funds to buy a big property? Would that be seen as deprivation of assets?

I don’t think it would, I looked into it briefly and frankly that’s not the objective and she’d still have some funds to bridge care home if needed.

shouldve said in my OP she’s a widow

OP posts:
romdowa · 04/10/2024 17:54

Can your mother not buy a smaller property near where you live ?

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