Page 5 | There’s no way this can work is there?

Pickledpicklez · 2024-10-04T16:41:46+00:00

If there is, please advise. dm is getting elderly, lives in other end of country. Time is coming to think of more long term plans. Not quite yet but in the next 3 years. as a working theory we’ve said, well both sell our homes and buy a larger house with an annex for her. Perfect, except there seems to be no way to make this actually possible as no one will let us view a house because we’ve got not one but two houses to sell. So 2 chains. Dh and I would like another child, so our family may expand. And we don’t have enough savings nor is it affordable mortgage wise to take out a second mortgage especially as we’d be looking at a 5 bed house with an annex, either as an out building or side of the house. We’d need it already built and we’d need to close to my kids school (one of the best in the city so seems foolish to move from the catchment area) we don’t have enough room as is for dm to sell up and move in now. Plus dm isn’t an easy woman, the annex for some separate living conditions is an absolute must. only thing I can think of is bridging loan (high risk) and moving my house to consent to let on interest only to remove the capital and maxing out affordability, BUT likely no high street lender would touch us because it’s so high risk and even writing down it’s likely not affordable. one option is that she needs to sell toute suite and move into a cheap rental but who knows how long it would be til we could find a house that ticks all the boxes anyone had similar and can help me.

Richtea67 · 04/10/2024 19:25

Sirzy · 04/10/2024 17:51

Would her moving into some sort of supported living near you be a better option?

I think this is the best option. We're thinking of the same thing for my mum in the next couple of years.

chocciemonster39 · 04/10/2024 19:25

Pickledpicklez · 04/10/2024 18:43

So in principle it would be cheaper than everything now as she’d pay for bills too and our mortgage would be 100k less.

simply put I wouldn’t give up work, and if it came to the point in which that was needed then her living with us isn’t working. She’d be able to pay for carers to come in.

genuine question if she lived down the road and her health deteriorates would it not be the same?

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I’d say having some physical separation would make a big difference especially to your DC. If your DM is difficult and especially if her behaviour becomes worse due to any future illness (this happened with my GM with dementia who lived with us) then they would be more shielded.

Underlig · 04/10/2024 19:24

Do you have siblings?

Aligirlbear · 04/10/2024 19:21

Do you have any assisted living facilities near you. LA / Housing Association led NOT McCarthy and Stone. Your DM could sell her property and buy there. The advantages are : relatively cheap to buy - or could rent.

Upon her death / going into care the Housing Association buy it off you ( at a pre determined discount i.e. -1% per year living there ) . While living there they have a 24 hour alarm system for emergencies and out of hours and weekends . ( usually staff around 9 - 5 Mon - fri). Easier to get carers to visit if needed as others also have carers. Mix of fully able / less able in the community. Staff will check on residents if they don’t see they around to make sure they are ok.

Usually run plenty of activities i.e. craft / bingo / knitting circle / coffee mornings / quizzes etc. and the residents can be as involved or otherwise as they want.

Flats are designed for wheelchair use with a wet room type shower so future proofing for lack of mobility.

There are service charges above council tax but that’s the cost of staff being available / alarm / gardening etc.

We moved or DP into Assisted Living - best thing we did as we knew none of use would cope with them living with us / or next door and we know they are safe 24 x 7 so don’t have to worry about any of us going on holiday and leaving them unsupported.

Might be an idea if there is a facility near you.

NinaGeiger · 04/10/2024 19:19

Fair enough. I guess we had already sold STC one property with the other on the market when we started looking.

I hope you find a solution that works for you. Good luck.

Original poster

Pickledpicklez · 04/10/2024 19:17

Just wanted to say this is actually really helpful guys, thank you!

this has been worrying me sick.

someone asked would she really ask this of me… I said to her, I’ll spend my whole life being a carer and my children are so young, she broke down in tears and said she always had visions of dying alone..: so safe to say yes, she would want this of me

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Original poster

Pickledpicklez · 04/10/2024 19:15

MissJoGrant · 04/10/2024 18:52

You're (presumably from this statement) from a culture where they don't. Why does his culture trump yours?

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Not really no, both my sets of GMs lived with my mum. Plus in this scenario my mum would be coming before his

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Pickledpicklez · 04/10/2024 19:14

Pandasnacks · 04/10/2024 18:48

What happens when she needs to pay care fees? Will you have to buy her share in the house off her?

She wouldn’t be on the property deeds, she’d be gifting the deposit as it were

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Original poster

Pickledpicklez · 04/10/2024 19:12

NinaGeiger · 04/10/2024 19:09

I don't see why you can't view properties?
A few years ago my husband and I both had flats to sell and had no problem viewing houses. I guess we didn't have 2 chains because we moved into the 2nd flat when the first one sold.

they literally won’t let us, I saw a lovely ticks all the boxes house (and you’ve seen how many boxes we’ve got) and the agent said the seller refused (different houses have said the same now) as they want basically first time buyers or someone in more an immediate position. Chatting at work others have found this problem too, people won’t let you view a house when yours isn’t even on the market

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Pickledpicklez · 04/10/2024 19:10

Roryno · 04/10/2024 18:57

Do you have any siblings? Would part of this new house have to go to siblings as inheritance?

I think it’s a big jump from being at the other end of the country to being next door. Does she know people in your area? If not she’s going to be leaning on you for company more than you think. How old is she? My mother went from being totally active, independent and self sufficient to needing sooooo much care between 75 and 80. I’d like my mum to move into a wing/annex in our house when we do it up, but that’s just to make it easier for me as I’m going twice a day to her house and doing 80% for her. I can’t imagine having a new baby in the mix as well. It feels like having a child already!

Maybe that’s the option…

a house for her close by, luckily she does know people here but if we had another child we’d have to move anyway, but we move to a house that has the potential to do an annex…. And she can get a v small bungalow close by

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NinaGeiger · 04/10/2024 19:09

I don't see why you can't view properties?
A few years ago my husband and I both had flats to sell and had no problem viewing houses. I guess we didn't have 2 chains because we moved into the 2nd flat when the first one sold.

Original poster

Pickledpicklez · 04/10/2024 19:08

Roryno · 04/10/2024 18:57

Do you have any siblings? Would part of this new house have to go to siblings as inheritance?

I think it’s a big jump from being at the other end of the country to being next door. Does she know people in your area? If not she’s going to be leaning on you for company more than you think. How old is she? My mother went from being totally active, independent and self sufficient to needing sooooo much care between 75 and 80. I’d like my mum to move into a wing/annex in our house when we do it up, but that’s just to make it easier for me as I’m going twice a day to her house and doing 80% for her. I can’t imagine having a new baby in the mix as well. It feels like having a child already!

I have one but he’s a vile individual, so that’s out in terms of support and also benefiting, selling now and using it for a larger house for basically me, would cut him out entirely which is what she wants to do anyway as he’d never help, in any way in old age

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Viviennemary · 04/10/2024 19:07

I wouldn't touch a bridging loan.far far too risky. If she isn't an easy woman then sharing a house even with an annexe won't be easy. Maybe her own small house or flat nearish to you would be worth considering.

Original poster

Pickledpicklez · 04/10/2024 19:05

nothingcomestonothing · 04/10/2024 18:50

Your thinking on this seems a bit muddled OP.

You're talking about her potentially needing care at 3am, but you have two young DC, want another and have a job, how are you going to provide care at 3am? Let alone to a woman you find challenging and who is highly unlikely to get less so as she ages. And what happens if your DPs mum suddenly becomes unwell and needs to move in too, or your DM lives much longer than you are expecting, are you going to move house again and care for both?

My DMs grandmother moved in with my DMs family when DM was 7, the expectation was she'd live with them for 10 years. She died, still living with my grandparents, when my DM was 40. My grandparents' whole lives were taken up by caring, without any gap between hands on caring for DC and hand on caring for a parent. Do you want that, for your and your DC?

Honestly my head is spinning with it… so that’s not surprising.

mil is about 15 years younger than mine so whilst no guarantee of anything, playing the odds, she’ll likely outlive my mum, she’s just turned 60. She already lives a lot closer, so that’s less of an immediate concern. But we’d have a spare bedroom for adhoc needs.

but the fact that my mum could feasibly live for another 15 years and MIL 15 again on top (30)…. And then that would mean 30 years of being a carer in someway shape or form is fucking terrifying

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Pickledpicklez · 04/10/2024 19:01

Pandasnacks · 04/10/2024 18:48

What happens when she needs to pay care fees? Will you have to buy her share in the house off her?

The same as if she had no assets I presume, the poster up thread affirmed that it wouldn’t be a deprivation of assets scenario. If she needed carers in she’d be able to pay for them. Her after tax income is sufficient

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nokidshere · 04/10/2024 19:00

My mil moved next door to us when she was in her 80s

We had two young boys and both of us worked full time.

Pros:
She had an amazing relationship with her grandchildren

We didn't have to pack up and travel every few weeks or so for a whole weekend or more to see her

Seeing her & keeping her company for 10/15 minute slots every day was so much better than all being in the same house for a weekend or longer

She rarely came into our house except at Christmas

She looked after the boys for short periods of time if we wanted to go out

Any medical/financial issues I was on hand to help sort out

She stayed independent for the rest of her life and when she needed help we were just next door, she got carers in and had a cleaner. The main thing we did was do her online shop and arrange appointments.

Cons:

Can't think of any to be honest

It's different for everyone and only you can decide if it will work for you. I loved my MIL and she was a lovely lady. She died in her own home aged 96.

Sunnnybunny72 · 04/10/2024 18:58

Everyone I know that's done this has ended up on antidepressants.
Think long and very very hard. Not the sacrifice I'd let my DC make hopefully.
She'd really let you do this?!

Roryno · 04/10/2024 18:57

Do you have any siblings? Would part of this new house have to go to siblings as inheritance?

I think it’s a big jump from being at the other end of the country to being next door. Does she know people in your area? If not she’s going to be leaning on you for company more than you think. How old is she? My mother went from being totally active, independent and self sufficient to needing sooooo much care between 75 and 80. I’d like my mum to move into a wing/annex in our house when we do it up, but that’s just to make it easier for me as I’m going twice a day to her house and doing 80% for her. I can’t imagine having a new baby in the mix as well. It feels like having a child already!

FerienInLipizza · 04/10/2024 18:54

Pickledpicklez · 04/10/2024 18:13

Yeah that’s a very good point!

i guess my thinking is there or will be a time when her living in a separate home doesn’t work. Ie to bridge a gap if she needs state carers they won’t come out at 3am…

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Maybe speak to a someone that deals with this at SS. You will know exactly what you can and can't do that way.

I jointly owned the house my DDad lived in. He moved in with me for 9 months and in that time he went from reasonably well to severely demented.

I rented the house out.

The state wanted me to sell the house to release his half but I sought advice and refused to sell. They had no means of making me do this and my owning one half rendered his half valueless although I was advised to pay him a nominal fee for his half as an act of goodwill and that is what I did.

I paid his care fees for a year and then the state took over. He lived in care for ten years.

I adored him but caring for him nearly broke me. It was hell as he was so mentally unwell.

If I had my time over and in your situation, I would support her in her own home for now and then when she needs care, literally hand it all over to SS. Had I done that instead of trying to help out, my DDads situation would have been altogether more pleasant. I thought I could care for him and I couldn't but don't use your mothers money tied up in her house for anything until you have had very good advice as it might come around to bite you on the butt.

MissJoGrant · 04/10/2024 18:52

Pickledpicklez · 04/10/2024 18:10

My kids are very young.

dh was the one who said we need to accept both our dms are going to end up with us, different time periods as my dm is so much older than his. He’s from a culture where parents always live with the child in old age

but it does worry me!

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You're (presumably from this statement) from a culture where they don't. Why does his culture trump yours?

nothingcomestonothing · 04/10/2024 18:50

Your thinking on this seems a bit muddled OP.

You're talking about her potentially needing care at 3am, but you have two young DC, want another and have a job, how are you going to provide care at 3am? Let alone to a woman you find challenging and who is highly unlikely to get less so as she ages. And what happens if your DPs mum suddenly becomes unwell and needs to move in too, or your DM lives much longer than you are expecting, are you going to move house again and care for both?

My DMs grandmother moved in with my DMs family when DM was 7, the expectation was she'd live with them for 10 years. She died, still living with my grandparents, when my DM was 40. My grandparents' whole lives were taken up by caring, without any gap between hands on caring for DC and hand on caring for a parent. Do you want that, for your and your DC?

Pandasnacks · 04/10/2024 18:48

What happens when she needs to pay care fees? Will you have to buy her share in the house off her?

Original poster

Pickledpicklez · 04/10/2024 18:45

ARichtGoodDram · 04/10/2024 18:40

I don't think an annexe will give you the space, mentally, you think it will.

You'll still be right there 24/7. She'll still be there 24/7.

MIL lives with us. She has lots of her own space. It's still hard. She is the easiest going person I've ever met and it's still hard. It would be a living nightmare if she was difficult.

Talk to me about this? I see it more as neighbours where she spends most of her time and maintains her flat or whatever:

what’s your experience does your have an annex or a you share a larger house and she has her area?

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Original poster

Pickledpicklez · 04/10/2024 18:43

chocciemonster39 · 04/10/2024 18:28

OP, echoing what other PPs have said, I think you need to consider and research really carefully whether your mum moving in with you (even in an annex) is a good idea financially and for the family as a whole. From experience of my grandparents living with us as a kid (my GM was a very difficult person) the caring responsibilities took a big toll on my DM and she wasn’t able to give time snd emotional support to us kids. If your DM moves in and her health deteriorated, who is going to look after her and how will this work with work/finances and your DC? Will there be enough time and attention to go round?

So in principle it would be cheaper than everything now as she’d pay for bills too and our mortgage would be 100k less.

simply put I wouldn’t give up work, and if it came to the point in which that was needed then her living with us isn’t working. She’d be able to pay for carers to come in.

genuine question if she lived down the road and her health deteriorates would it not be the same?

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ARichtGoodDram · 04/10/2024 18:40

I don't think an annexe will give you the space, mentally, you think it will.

You'll still be right there 24/7. She'll still be there 24/7.

MIL lives with us. She has lots of her own space. It's still hard. She is the easiest going person I've ever met and it's still hard. It would be a living nightmare if she was difficult.