To be fed of of vile comments re disability and pip- so come on those people suggest a job for me.

Thank you.

What gets me is that I used to work in a really challenging profession. I'm more than capable of dealing with complicated processes. But this is just inhumane.

@RaiseYourSkinnyFists 💐

Maybe they wouldn't but I'm too scared to even apply. With them making that many mistakes, it's clearly deliberate.

Sometimes I gaslight myself that I'm imagining it! The idea of the government doing the same to me makes me so incredibly worried. I've had suicidal depression in the past and I'm terrified of being put back to that. I genuinely fear that I wouldn't survive that kind of treatment.

It's awful. I'm praying for some kind of reform that means they can just accept what's on my medical records.

@RaiseYourSkinnyFists Cripes, that’s so ridiculous and unfair. Surely a degenerative disease is clearly diagnosed in your medical notes, how could anyone have the gall to challenge it?

My Mum suffered from MS, for example (died years ago pre-PIP) and there’s no way anyone could deny that she had a degenerative disease.

It's clearly designed to be as difficult and upsetting as possible.

I'm certain I qualify but I won't apply. I'm not mentally prepared to be called a liar or have to go to a tribunal. It's challenging enough coming to terms with having a degenerative disease, let alone have to go to court to prove I'm not imagining it.

I hear you OP.
I have 2 invisible illnesses. I work but would actually be better off on benefits. I want to work but obviously have challenges that others don't see. When I pull off a long shift it can take me days to recover.
Even my own family don't get it so I don't even attempt to get anyone else to understand. The other day when I tried to talk about an appointment I was going to, a relative of mine said 'Could you ask them this question for me?' then said she was joking but actually I wasn't convinced she was.
My illnesses get dismissed because on the surface I cope well and therefore it is very isolating and I often feel very alone. There are online forums for support but often they can make me feel worse.
Sorry off on a tangent there but I think to sum it up, many don't realise what it is like to not have good health or wealth. Especially on MN.

The fact that so many appeals are overturned at PIP tribunals, speaks volumes. The system of assessing, is in dire need of reform. It is costly for the cases to have to go to the tribunal, not to mention stressful, and time consuming for the claimant, who is in so many cases, proven to have been wrongfully assessed in the beginning.

I know a few people who just appeal the decisions for PIP and it's overturned. Makes you wonder what the first lot were thinking / writing down.

Of which the vast majority are overturned on appeal.

So rather it's inept first instance decision makers than people taking advantage.

I only saw a little bit of the other thread. I think people get mixed up with those people who have clearly tried lots of different strategies for managing their health conditions with work until it’s not viable anymore, and the conversation about helping people out much much earlier on which is valid.

If you receive very little help or support in the workplace from the start and it just keeps failing - like the OP described, all you are doing is making people fail over and over until they can’t cope with it anymore. The help people need when first diagnosed with depression probably is some time off work - by the time you have reached this stage you will likely be quite unwell? no one is there to help them adapt to their diagnosis, there are no mental health services or support systems in place when people do try to go back to work so the fail cycle starts again.

More resources are needed in mental health services and employers can be forced to be far more accommodating to someone with a disability or health condition that significantly impacts their lives. A lot of employers will put in a wheelchair ramp to be accessible but then prevent disabled people from having time off when their health requires by threatening to sack them.

If you felt that you were not that "needy" of a blue badge, then maybe you should not have been applying for it in the first place. Some people would lump you in with the "piss takers", whether you were awarded one, or not.

@LoremIpsumCici Said exactly what I wanted to say but far more eloquently!
I'm sorry about your situation and your daily struggles.
Too many people think pip is " free money" and the government stance on benefits( people can do the right job if they want to) fuels the ignorance and stigma for claimants
I have Cerebral Palsy which will only get worse with age.

I've just been awarded Pip. I'm managing just about to work while having young children but every day is a struggle. I agree with those posters that the conditions that are put in the category of 'I know someone who had that and it wasn't that bad therefore you must be exaggerating' are incredibly hard to deal with because every person that you discuss your struggles with thinks you must be a benefit scrounger and shouldn't get the help. It is exhausting and I'm exhausted from being exhausted.

Most people don't understand quite what it's like living with a disability until they actually experience it.

My teenage daughter has just been granted PIP. She previously received DLA.

It might surprise surprise people that know her because the true extent of her health issues are kept as private as we are able to.

I think that's probably the case for many people where the disability might not be an immediately visible physical issue.

I don't think being assessed as such is the problem. It's the fact that assessment reports are sometimes often not accurate and at times bear very little resemblance to what the claimant has said. Evidence from claimants' doctors is also regularly ignored.

The criteria used are also very arbitrary and you can be very unwell and still not fit the boxes.

A high percentage of refusals are also overturned at tribunal which means the DWP are regularly making incorrect decisions ( based on inaccurate reports by assessment providers.)

yanbu - I had to hide that awful thread yesterday about PIP when the sanctimonious self imposed benefit bashers swooped in like bald eagles (apologies to eagles). They are fucking shameful and have no idea what it’s like when you want to but can’t work. There’s very very few magic jobs that are easily available, even navigating the job search is a nightmare. They clearly have no idea how hard it is to get awarded PIP and it makes me very angry they can get away with sweeping generalisations they haven’t a clue about.

If you are getting 20 seizures a week I can't imagine you could really go out safely l, let alone work. What about if you have one whilst crossing the road. I imagine you can't drive. Your life sounds hard enough without trying to go out to work on top. PIP is meant for people like you.

In principle but imagine being asked in an assessment whether you ever have suicidal thoughts, you say yes because you do and the report then states client says no intrusive thoughts. It's the blatant lies and forcing people to move joints in ways that aren't suitable that's the problem.

Last time I was assessed I was so fed up of the constant harassment I sent in one of the many many letters I'd received from Matt Hancock telling me to stay in and all that goes with being permanently immunocompromised.

It's a bit ironic that the health secretary was writing to you saying your sick and the dwp are also writing saying prove that your sick.

Just as bad. They need to educate themselves and read the room.

Indeed. But the answer isn't to force people into work they're incapable of, its to tackle the reasons people are too ill to work at source. Many people are on sickness benefits because they are waiting for treatment and operations. Many others because delays in diagnosis and treatment turned an acute problem into a chronic one. People's mental health doesn't improve because the services that should support them are poor to non existent. I'm firmly of the opinion that work is good for wellbeing, but forcing people into it without addressing their health conditions is putting the cart before the horse. Also, work should not be 'stressful' if you're in a job conversent with your capabilities where you are treated well and the demands on you reasonable, it should not impact your MH. If our default is 'work is stressful' then there's something needing to be addressed there too.

@Diomi it's 70% of those that go to appeal/tribunal win their case. Many people give up either before attempting a mandatory reconsideration, or after MR (but decide not to proceed to appeal). Stats are published by the government e.g. www.gov.uk/government/statistics/personal-independence-payment-statistics-to-january-2024/personal-independence-payment-official-statistics-to-january-2024

I completely and utterly understand why you started this thread. Mumsnet can be a cold house for people on sickness benefits. So many threads where a poster can't decide whether to report someone for benefit fraud because they have seen that person - oh deary me - walking/talking/tying their own shoelaces. A couple of snapshots of a person's life and they think they know it all. The amount of money received is a pittance and still people are resentful. Not many employers are understanding about an unpredictable and fluctuating condition meaning that a person could be in work for two days, off for three, in again for one, that they might frequently need to come in late, have multiple hospital/doctors' appointments etc. That is why many people have no option but to go on ESA. And don't get me started on PIP.

Sorry you're feeling this way @Laughydodo. I'm not in this position myself, but very close to someone who is.

Is it 70% of the people who decide to go to tribunal win or 70% of all people who get turned down go to tribunal and they all win?

Yes, that is true. I am sorry you are getting a double dose of the hate.

If it’s epilepsy, look into the keto diet. Awaiting attacks here but I dgaf, if it helps one person I’m glad I spoke. See the film ‘first do no harm’ with Meryl Streep, look into it x Sending you love and hope 💖