Page 3 | To be fed of of vile comments re disability and pip- so come on those people suggest a job for me.

Laughydodo · 2024-10-03T22:22:22+00:00

Named changes for this Fed up of the vile comments about disability including on mumsnet. (I know it’s a minority on here). Especially against those who claim PIP. Fed up of feeling like a second class citizen because I claim benefits. Fed up of people saying my mental health will improve if I am at work. Fed up of disability top trumps with people saying things like- I have this , this and this disability and I manage to work. Fed up that some people seem be hoping that Pip is abolished and then people like us will have to find another way to support ourselves. Also so fearful of this happening. I clung onto work for years with having epilepsy and fibromyalgia. Fighting to stay in while employers were trying everything to get rid of me. I would be let go from one job on health grounds only to start the process again and it end the same way. I now claim pip and esa as i have up to 20 seizures a week. Half of which I lose my memory and speech (I don’t even recognise my husband at times) and are totally wiped out for half a day at least . Would love some of the smug arseholes that’s seem to think everyone can work find someone who is willing to employ me. Oh and I piss myself as well and lose control of my bowels with many of my seizures. This is without the pain of fibro coming into it all. So come on then these people on here who think all disabled people should work- suggest all the jobs that I can do that will benefit my mental health so I won’t be a burden on the state. Would you honestly be happy to employ me? Sorry but the self righteous comments from people who dont have a clue is really starting to boil my piss. Oh and one day it might happen to them. I was 22 when I developed epilepsy, 30 when I got fibro after having glandular fever. I would not wish this one anyone obviously but people seem to forget that disability can happen at any time. So waiting for the jobs suggestions to begin and the list of employers that would employ me-

Differentstarts · 05/10/2024 11:45

Errors · 05/10/2024 08:54

I also disagree with the statement above about PIP not being for mental disabilities… of which Down’s Syndrome is one. There is a whole raft of mental disorders that would severely limit/impact someone’s ability to work. ASD, dementia, schizophrenia to name but a few.

But there is a world of difference between these and someone claiming they can’t work just because of anxiety. And I have had anxiety so I know what it’s like.

You have anxiety or an anxiety disorder there is a difference. Are you under secondary care for this? How many attempts have you had to take your life? Has your anxiety lead to agoraphobia? How many panic attacks do you have a day? What medication has your psychiatrist prescribed? Have you ever been or currently in a psychiatric unit ?
These are the sort of things that need answering and proof of for pip. Going to see your gp and told yeah its anxiety isn't going to be enough to get pip

Differentstarts · 05/10/2024 11:40

Errors · 05/10/2024 08:50

If anything, I think you should be more annoyed at people who claim PIP that don’t need it! Surely that’s what is causing the issues?

But these people don't exist everyone who gets pip does need it or they wouldn't get it. If you had ever been through the pip process you would understand this

LakieLady · 05/10/2024 11:38

Diomi · 04/10/2024 08:30

I don’t think people are bothered about legitimate claims like yours. I do think it is odd when people grumble about having to be assessed for it though. How else could the system work? A lot of people get turned down (I read somewhere that it was over half) so there must be quite a high number who want to take advantage of the system.

No, @Diomi, a lot of people are wrongly turned down for PIP, which is why the success rate for PIP appeals is 70%.

I suspect that the success rate when people are represented by welfare rights advisers is considerably higher. My team can't be the only one with a success rate of virtually 100%. The PIP regulations are complex and the average layperson appealing is unlikely to know them inside out, and there's a huge body of case law for PIP which is constantly growing.

I don't think it's a coincidence that PIP was introduced at the same time that Legal Services Commission funding for welfare rights work was abolished. The Cameron govt made the system more complex and harder to navigate while making it harder for people to get help in navigating it.

Differentstarts · 05/10/2024 11:33

Candaceowens · 05/10/2024 06:59

It's not made up ableist bullshit FFS.

Are people seriously trying to say that absolutely nobody falsely claims benefits?

But since you want to know- I worked until recently in a school in a deprived area. The parents would openly discuss their claims and the lengths they'd gone to to try and falsely claim benefits. PIP was sort of glorified as the top prize. This was a regular conversation had by many.

Actually one memory that sticks with me is a woman who announced to everyone that she hadn't pissed herself (the front of her leggings was soaked) but that she'd told PIP she pisses herself in public because she's so anxious. She was laughing about it and others congratulated her on her genius.

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But she would need consultant letters to back that which means she would have to have medical evidence of why. I don't doubt benefit fraud with other benefits but the fraud rate for pip is 0.4% due to the amount of medical evidence needed

LakieLady · 05/10/2024 10:43

Candaceowens · 04/10/2024 03:16

People clearly aren't talking about you OP and I'm pretty sure you know that.

There's an awful lot of people out there determined to live life on benefits and who see falsely claiming PIP as some sort of accomplishment. Those are the people who anger is directed towards and you should be angry too because they are making it harder for people like you to get the support you need.

I'd love to know how they do it, as around 50% of my team's applications are refused. The vast majority of those then go to appeal, and the team's success rate at appeal is over 99% (one person lost one, once).

I know this is pretty standard for other projects like ours, where the applicant's primary presenting condition is a mental health one. It's not as though we're spectacularly bad at what we do, more that the system doesn't meet the needs of those with disabling mental health conditions.

I'd be interested to see the source for your contention that there are "an awful lot of people" falsely claiming, @Candaceowens .

LadyKenya · 05/10/2024 10:36

I am not surprised whatsoever with that poor response from MNHQ. They really do not care about a lot of things, I am sad to see.

wombat15 · 05/10/2024 10:30

PandoraSox · 05/10/2024 10:27

@Blu3S1st3r I reported one of the more obviously invented posts about PIP claimants merrily spouting freely about fraud etc. This is the reply I got:

"We're not in a position to decide if something is true since Mumsnet is an anonymous site and we're unable to fact-check every post. We think it's reasonable to say that benefit fraud exists and so we wouldn't remove on that basis. We encourage posters to challenge anything they believe is incorrect."

So, MNHQ's position is clear. They don't care that the platform is being used to spread hate for disabled people.

Edited

No surprise.

PandoraSox · 05/10/2024 10:27

@Blu3S1st3r I reported one of the more obviously invented posts about PIP claimants merrily spouting freely about fraud etc. This is the reply I got:

"We're not in a position to decide if something is true since Mumsnet is an anonymous site and we're unable to fact-check every post. We think it's reasonable to say that benefit fraud exists and so we wouldn't remove on that basis. We encourage posters to challenge anything they believe is incorrect."

So, MNHQ's position is clear. They don't care that the platform is being used to spread hate for disabled people.

LakieLady · 05/10/2024 10:26

TheGrimSqueakersFlea · 03/10/2024 23:32

I'm convinced that pip applications are designed to break you. Some people on here think you just sign up and get free money thrown at you.

I agree. I'm surprised that the DWP haven't suggested that if you're well enough to get through the process, you're well enough to work.

I was at a tribunal yesterday. My client was in such a state that she was in tears in the waiting room, struggling not to cry in the hearing, and in tears afterwards. Then, when we got told we'd won, she totally broke down. It was nothing to do with the panel members, who'd all been absolutely lovely, but the process.

The whole process had taken nearly 2 years, it's little short of criminal what they put people through. And the assessor's report was utter bollocks and read as though it had been through some sort of pisspoor translation software.

It's beyond bollocks.

LadyKenya · 05/10/2024 10:25

Also I am sitting here thinking about having no idea of whether any people I know are fraudulently claiming PIP. I apparently must know some people though, apparently we all do!

LadyKenya · 05/10/2024 10:21

HoppityBun · 05/10/2024 09:32

OP I’d like to start by saying that I completely understand your distress and anger and it’s absolutely right that you have PIP.

I think that the whole assessment process is bizarre. I knew someone, sadly he’s recently died, who could barely walk and had breathing problems. He had every benefit he applied for. What the assessors never picked up on was that he was an absolute genius with IT and could easily have worked on that from home.

Maybe he could not work, even from home, due to his conditions. Who knows? Either way his ability to work, or not would have nothing to do with his PIP. Many people claim PIP and work.

PandoraSox · 05/10/2024 10:00

HoppityBun · 05/10/2024 09:32

OP I’d like to start by saying that I completely understand your distress and anger and it’s absolutely right that you have PIP.

I think that the whole assessment process is bizarre. I knew someone, sadly he’s recently died, who could barely walk and had breathing problems. He had every benefit he applied for. What the assessors never picked up on was that he was an absolute genius with IT and could easily have worked on that from home.

Whether he could work from home or not would have no bearing on his PIP claim, so that would be why the assessors did not pick up on it.

PandoraSox · 05/10/2024 09:56

Beryls · 05/10/2024 09:37

Denying it happens doesn't help, it absolutely does and that's why some people have the doubtful attitude towards genuinely disabled people. I was explaining why some people hold those views, not stating that those views were fact or correct. 'People like me' have close family members receiving PIP so I understand how difficult it is.

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Where have I denied it is happening? There are fraudsters in every financial system. But the PIP fraud rate is very low and to suggest it is not is simply wrong.

I doubt you know the first thing about PIP tbh, as you don't even understand that it has nothing to do with ability to work.

wombat15 · 05/10/2024 09:49

Beryls · 05/10/2024 09:21

I think a lot of the time people can be critical of PIP because many people know of someone who openly plays the system and gets away with it. It is utterly wrong to tar everybody with the same brush but that's where it comes from unfortunately. It's those people making it harder for everyone else with disabilities.

I don't know anybody who would begrudge payments for genuinely disabled people who cannot work, but the one that will stick in their minds is Ian up the road who's never worked a day because of his 'mental health' but lives a happy, full life and openly admits to playing the system. They're the people that we should be angry at and they're the ones making it harder for everyone else.

I don't know what the answer is, the assessments have to be 'tough' to try and prevent those people who just don't want to work from receiving money for nothing, but that then makes it harder for people with genuine disabilities.

I don't think many people do know anyone who plays the system. The just read stuff online that is probably being made up. If anyone was playing the system why would they be open about it and risk loosing it.

wombat15 · 05/10/2024 09:39

Beryls · 05/10/2024 09:21

I think a lot of the time people can be critical of PIP because many people know of someone who openly plays the system and gets away with it. It is utterly wrong to tar everybody with the same brush but that's where it comes from unfortunately. It's those people making it harder for everyone else with disabilities.

I don't know anybody who would begrudge payments for genuinely disabled people who cannot work, but the one that will stick in their minds is Ian up the road who's never worked a day because of his 'mental health' but lives a happy, full life and openly admits to playing the system. They're the people that we should be angry at and they're the ones making it harder for everyone else.

I don't know what the answer is, the assessments have to be 'tough' to try and prevent those people who just don't want to work from receiving money for nothing, but that then makes it harder for people with genuine disabilities.

PiP is for the extra costs if living if disabled and not to do with whether you can work.

Beryls · 05/10/2024 09:37

PandoraSox · 05/10/2024 09:27

I think a lot of the time people can be critical of PIP because many people know of someone who openly plays the system and gets away with it. It is utterly wrong to tar everybody with the same brush but that's where it comes from unfortunately. It's those people making it harder for everyone else with disabilities

No, no it isn't. It is people like you, suggesting PIP fraud is common when it is not, who make life difficult for disabled people.

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Denying it happens doesn't help, it absolutely does and that's why some people have the doubtful attitude towards genuinely disabled people. I was explaining why some people hold those views, not stating that those views were fact or correct. 'People like me' have close family members receiving PIP so I understand how difficult it is.

HoppityBun · 05/10/2024 09:32

OP I’d like to start by saying that I completely understand your distress and anger and it’s absolutely right that you have PIP.

I think that the whole assessment process is bizarre. I knew someone, sadly he’s recently died, who could barely walk and had breathing problems. He had every benefit he applied for. What the assessors never picked up on was that he was an absolute genius with IT and could easily have worked on that from home.

Blu3S1st3r · 05/10/2024 09:30

That said I don’t think that’s a reason not to raise it again. I also wonder if it’s time to look beyond MN re raising how bad the platform is now. Are there any regulation bodies, should people paying for advertising be made aware….

PandoraSox · 05/10/2024 09:27

Blu3S1st3r · 05/10/2024 09:27

They don’t care about autism or adhd bashing either. Back in the day they did care. Now I think their focus is on advertising and making money.

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Yep.

PandoraSox · 05/10/2024 09:27

Beryls · 05/10/2024 09:21

I think a lot of the time people can be critical of PIP because many people know of someone who openly plays the system and gets away with it. It is utterly wrong to tar everybody with the same brush but that's where it comes from unfortunately. It's those people making it harder for everyone else with disabilities.

I don't know anybody who would begrudge payments for genuinely disabled people who cannot work, but the one that will stick in their minds is Ian up the road who's never worked a day because of his 'mental health' but lives a happy, full life and openly admits to playing the system. They're the people that we should be angry at and they're the ones making it harder for everyone else.

I don't know what the answer is, the assessments have to be 'tough' to try and prevent those people who just don't want to work from receiving money for nothing, but that then makes it harder for people with genuine disabilities.

I think a lot of the time people can be critical of PIP because many people know of someone who openly plays the system and gets away with it. It is utterly wrong to tar everybody with the same brush but that's where it comes from unfortunately. It's those people making it harder for everyone else with disabilities

No, no it isn't. It is people like you, suggesting PIP fraud is common when it is not, who make life difficult for disabled people.

Blu3S1st3r · 05/10/2024 09:27

PandoraSox · 05/10/2024 09:25

MNHQ don't care.

I discussed the ableism on here a while back with MNHQ. I suggested they post on disability benefit bashing threads with something similar to what you are suggesting, and to remind people that most disability benefit claimants are genuine.They discussed it apparently, but decided not to.

But if you want to give it another go, do so!

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They don’t care about autism or adhd bashing either. Back in the day they did care. Now I think their focus is on advertising and making money.

PandoraSox · 05/10/2024 09:25

Sampler · 05/10/2024 09:16

I was actually thinking MN should have some kind of sticker/warning for anyone posting about PIP and remind people to be civil or get banned. It shouldn’t be a free for all for bitter twinset keyboard warriors who don’t bother reading the thread properly and haven’t seen a PIP form. For some reason the ill informed believe they have a right to abuse disabled people. Perhaps I’ll go to site stuff or ask HQ.

MNHQ don't care.

I discussed the ableism on here a while back with MNHQ. I suggested they post on disability benefit bashing threads with something similar to what you are suggesting, and to remind people that most disability benefit claimants are genuine.They discussed it apparently, but decided not to.

But if you want to give it another go, do so!

Beryls · 05/10/2024 09:21

I think a lot of the time people can be critical of PIP because many people know of someone who openly plays the system and gets away with it. It is utterly wrong to tar everybody with the same brush but that's where it comes from unfortunately. It's those people making it harder for everyone else with disabilities.

I don't know anybody who would begrudge payments for genuinely disabled people who cannot work, but the one that will stick in their minds is Ian up the road who's never worked a day because of his 'mental health' but lives a happy, full life and openly admits to playing the system. They're the people that we should be angry at and they're the ones making it harder for everyone else.

I don't know what the answer is, the assessments have to be 'tough' to try and prevent those people who just don't want to work from receiving money for nothing, but that then makes it harder for people with genuine disabilities.

Chipsintheair · 05/10/2024 09:19

Sampler · 05/10/2024 09:16

I was actually thinking MN should have some kind of sticker/warning for anyone posting about PIP and remind people to be civil or get banned. It shouldn’t be a free for all for bitter twinset keyboard warriors who don’t bother reading the thread properly and haven’t seen a PIP form. For some reason the ill informed believe they have a right to abuse disabled people. Perhaps I’ll go to site stuff or ask HQ.

Do. It's hate-speech against disabled people.

Chipsintheair · 05/10/2024 09:18

Errors · 05/10/2024 08:54

I also disagree with the statement above about PIP not being for mental disabilities… of which Down’s Syndrome is one. There is a whole raft of mental disorders that would severely limit/impact someone’s ability to work. ASD, dementia, schizophrenia to name but a few.

But there is a world of difference between these and someone claiming they can’t work just because of anxiety. And I have had anxiety so I know what it’s like.

PIP is to help disabled people to pay the extra it costs them to be able to work, (as well as to help with other extra costs for those who can't work) though, so of course people who are able to work can get it.