Page 18 | To detest people that think they own beautiful parts of the world?

LastNight1Dreamt1WentToManderleyAgain · 03/10/2024 16:53

Emerald95 · 03/10/2024 16:48

It's the whole argument around EDL / Reform UK, isn't it. They think that the migrants born in countries with horrific human right violations and no social security net should not be entitled to live in our country because they were unlucky enough to be born abroad.
I agree with you @Bumpitybumper being born somewhere does not give you more right to enjoy it

I can't believe that anyone is comparing refugees fleeing war to Londoners coveting a beach house.

independencefreedom · 03/10/2024 16:52

Bumpitybumper · 03/10/2024 14:19

I grew up in a very ugly and undesirable part of the country and now live in a tourist hotspot. I am becoming increasingly frustrated by people that are born and raised here trying to restrict tourism or stop 'outsiders' moving here. The houses are expensive here because it's such a lovely place to live but there isn't much employment except for from tourism. Despite this many locals that I know feel that tourism should be restricted as it makes the town extremely busy in high season. They also think housing should be subsidised for locals.

I feel that there are only so many beautiful places and those lucky enough to be born in them are no more entitled to live and enjoy them than the rest of us who by luck were born elsewhere. This would effectively condemn future people like me to live and visit only the less desirable of areas whilst my children could stay in this lovely area and be subsidised for doing so. It just feels incredibly unfair!

Well you're hardly an asset to the local community if you literally 'detest' people concerned about over-tourism. It's a massive problem in certain 'hot spots' worldwide such as Barcelona and Venice. When every second property is an air b n b rather than the home of someone who actually contributes to the community it can hollow out the heart of a place.

Your talk of privilege and luck sounds really bitter and entitled. I don't see what's wrong with prioritising people who may have lived in a particular place for generations, have deep roots there over someone who just likes a place because it looks pretty to them.

Some people are born with more money than others, some people are born in more beautiful places than others. Them's the breaks.

BunnyLake · 03/10/2024 16:52

ViciousCurrentBun · 03/10/2024 16:42

Second homes should be completely banned, I grew up in a rural idyll. Now it’s over run with wealthy Londoners who stay there for a few weeks of the year. It was always a problem but it’s so much worse since covid.

I agree. Some places are starting to raise the council tax on second (and more) homes and I fully support this. AirBnBs started out innocently enough, a spare room or converted garage let out. Then of course people got greedy and started buying entire properties, removing them from the market for people who need all year round permanent homes and turning them into holiday lets.

TheBluntTurtle · 03/10/2024 16:51

Cosyblankets · 03/10/2024 16:32

Do you never stay in a cottage or anything?

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Not all holiday cottages are air bnbs - holiday cottages which have gone through the proper planning permission regime are fine as the impact of it is assessed and decided whether it is appropriate. The problem with air bnb is that they are supposed to be short term lets of homes (up to 90 days/yr) and used as a home the rest of the time. If you want to run a year round holiday let business you need to apply for change of use planning permission from residential dwelling to holiday let. This would then allow the council to assess if the loss of that dwelling as a home could in combination with other holiday lets lead to housing shortages or if the location is inappropriate for a holiday let (could it result in disruption for residents etc). In reality this doesn’t happen - people run them as year round holiday lets without the required permission contributing to housing shortages worldwide in tourist hotspots and issues for residents. There’s lots of news articles on this and Barcelona had banned air bnb as it’s been such an issue there (Edinburgh and York might follow next)…

susiedaisy1912 · 03/10/2024 16:50

Bumpitybumper · 03/10/2024 14:19

I grew up in a very ugly and undesirable part of the country and now live in a tourist hotspot. I am becoming increasingly frustrated by people that are born and raised here trying to restrict tourism or stop 'outsiders' moving here. The houses are expensive here because it's such a lovely place to live but there isn't much employment except for from tourism. Despite this many locals that I know feel that tourism should be restricted as it makes the town extremely busy in high season. They also think housing should be subsidised for locals.

I feel that there are only so many beautiful places and those lucky enough to be born in them are no more entitled to live and enjoy them than the rest of us who by luck were born elsewhere. This would effectively condemn future people like me to live and visit only the less desirable of areas whilst my children could stay in this lovely area and be subsidised for doing so. It just feels incredibly unfair!

I agree with you op humans have always migrated to seek out a better life, no one owns the rights to an area just because it's nicer.

Butchyrestingface · 03/10/2024 16:49

SapphireSeptember · 03/10/2024 16:14

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/mar/12/abersoch-second-homes-holiday-wales

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/30/staycation-boom-forces-tenants-out-of-seaside-resort-homes

Okay, so shit like this is acceptable then?

Christ, that was sad.

Holidayhomeowner · 03/10/2024 16:49

Another perspective:
We bought our holiday home 2 years ago from someone wanting to sell it as they needed funds for another project. We rent it out all year, and do have some voids. We stay in it ourselves around 6 times a year. We've looked at renting it out permanently, but unfortunately although it is fully up to spec for all safety requirements, it doesn't have a good enough epc rating (old cottage) to be let out to anyone on a tenancy agreement.
We don't make money we break even. We employ 8 different trades (agency, linen hire, cleaner, gardener, gas engineer, electrical inspection company, gas supplier, bin collection and buy local products for the welcome packs).
We eat out locally, use local transport and spend lots when we visit, and assume our visitors do too.
I understand frustration from locals with bad tourists and their ways. I think society in general everywhere is getting more entitled and bad behaviour seems more frequent.
Everyone should be able to visit and stay anywhere in our beautiful land without hostility if they behave well.
I don't know what the answer is bar building more affordable homes and local council planning officers approving such builds. I know there is a reluctancy in some areas to grant, which I cannot understand.

Emerald95 · 03/10/2024 16:48

It's the whole argument around EDL / Reform UK, isn't it. They think that the migrants born in countries with horrific human right violations and no social security net should not be entitled to live in our country because they were unlucky enough to be born abroad.
I agree with you @Bumpitybumper being born somewhere does not give you more right to enjoy it

BunnyLake · 03/10/2024 16:45

Jessieshome · 03/10/2024 16:36

Funny, I grew up in Rugby! I can't afford a house in the area of Rugby I was brought up in, however I can afford a bigger house that the one I grew up in the beautiful touristy place I now live in. My husband is a local to this area which helped with getting on the property ladder here but it was still much much cheaper than the equivalent house would be in Rugby.

Many of the locals made me feel very miserable here for many years, not all of them but a good contingent, so many locals hate anyone who is not born here. I was desperate to get 'home' to Rugby despite having lived in various other locations for 10 years or so, but simply couldn't afford it. The people in the pretty place I live now would never dream of wanting to live in Rugby! Its a funny world. We need more houses and a variety of them and better management of Air B&B type lets, I think.

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I feel very lucky to have moved to a desirable part of the UK and never having any negative experiences about me not being a local. Funnily the only time I’ve had that was going in to a village pub full of locals, the sort of place where everyone stops and stares at you 🫣 but that wasn’t here, just a country pub in a different county.

Soukmyfalafel · 03/10/2024 16:45

I think you are wrong OP. Why should I be forced to move away from my family because tons of Londoners decide I live in a desirable area? I have been paying into the local economy for years, supported my town in becoming that desirable place in the first place and have presumably made tourists feel welcome, so why should I be priced out? I don't even live in that much of a desirable town aesthetically - the homes tend to be small and its very built up, but many people move to work here due to access of the rest of the county. I'm less bothered by that, it's the second home owners and air bnbs that do bother me because it has ruined a lot of local businesses and reduced housing supply, and there isn't much space here to just build the homes that people need either.

I think it's a shame to lose local people from an area. It loses its character. A lot of the areas built for Londoners in Devon are soulless now as local people have moved out and are empty mych of the time. Some of the private road communities just look very depressing. I don't get why you would want to move to a ghost town anyway.

LastNight1Dreamt1WentToManderleyAgain · 03/10/2024 16:44

GreenSkiesAtNight · 03/10/2024 16:42

But people from beauty spots can come live in big cities and no-one ever says they're pricing big city locals out of housing.

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Because they're likely to be earning comparable incomes and also everyone wants to leave home for the big city? Alas no.

Original poster

Bumpitybumper · 03/10/2024 16:44

Crystalbits · 03/10/2024 16:38

You’re lucky you can afford to live in a desirable place actually. Must of us stuck in dumps will never have that opportunity, we’re here for ever.
And those descendants you speak of will be priced out by wealthy incomers so it’s all academic.

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Luck? I moved away from my friends and family to create some of my luck. This is my whole point. I have lived in a range of undesirable places, some notoriously bad and often made fun of. I'm not saying this is possible for everyone but you never know what you or your descendants will achieve. Would you like your or their opportunity to move somewhere better to be restricted because you now live in a dump? Meanwhile my kids that grow up in a lovely area would presumably be giving preferential treatment for being locals.

OP posts:

stayathomer · 03/10/2024 16:43

I was reading about a place that is one of the most photographed places in the world. Tourists drink, litter, cause accidents to try to take different photos … we went to a tourist location we remembered from our childhood and it has been well and truly ruined- 4x4s and mansions everywhere and further building visible everywhere. Place is ruined. I actually think your viewpoint is showing as much entitlement as you say the inhabitants of these places show!!!

GreenSkiesAtNight · 03/10/2024 16:42

Bluevelvetsofa · 03/10/2024 14:30

I disagree. I think it’s entirely reasonable for people who were born and raised in a particular area to be able to buy or rent a property in that area, if that’s what they want to do. They may wish to be near family and friends. They may have work locally. They may simply want to stay where it’s familiar.

The bigger issue is that so many properties are second homes, or are holiday cottages of various types, some of which are empty for tranches of time.

If tourism is what keeps the economy going, then it’s churlish to want to curtail that though.

But people from beauty spots can come live in big cities and no-one ever says they're pricing big city locals out of housing.

ViciousCurrentBun · 03/10/2024 16:42

Second homes should be completely banned, I grew up in a rural idyll. Now it’s over run with wealthy Londoners who stay there for a few weeks of the year. It was always a problem but it’s so much worse since covid.

maddening · 03/10/2024 16:41

Bumpitybumper · 03/10/2024 14:36

But what about people that are born and raised in areas that are less desirable and want to move to these desirable areas? Assuming that there is a very limited housing supply (which there usually is in these kinds of places) then why should locals get preference just because they were lucky enough to have been born there? I just think this is the ultimate in entitlement and entrenching generational privilege.

We all have our reasons for wanting to live somewhere and I don't think it's fair that locals are assumed to have more valid reasons. I also think holiday homes are fine if in use for large chunks of time. Without them then the tourist trade would really suffer as lots of people simply don't want hotels anymore

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Surely the answer is that those in undesirable areas should put pressure on the local government to improve those areas rather than expect other areas to build up for everyone to move to.

ObelixtheGaul · 03/10/2024 16:41

Crystalbits · 03/10/2024 16:38

You’re lucky you can afford to live in a desirable place actually. Must of us stuck in dumps will never have that opportunity, we’re here for ever.
And those descendants you speak of will be priced out by wealthy incomers so it’s all academic.

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In fairness, I have never been a wealthy incomer. Just an incomer. I now live in a tourist bit by the sea, but not a wealthy one. We incomers aren't all rich executives.

LastNight1Dreamt1WentToManderleyAgain · 03/10/2024 16:40

Cosyblankets · 03/10/2024 16:37

And that's fine for you but lots of families prefer houses

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That's right! They prefer to live in houses. All year round. Not have them AirBnBd out of existence.

Original poster

Bumpitybumper · 03/10/2024 16:39

TheBluntTurtle · 03/10/2024 16:33

I live in a tourist town. There’s a balance to be had- yes tourism has to be promoted and welcomed to an extent as it brings in money and jobs. But that can’t come at the cost of the place losing its initial charm, losing services for locals or resulting in housing shortages.
for example- unregulated holiday lets (air bnb) are resulting in housing shortages and issues for residents as they exploit planning loopholes. This loophole needs to be closed - fine if folk want to run a holiday let but they need to apply for permission and do it properly.
likewise tourist town centres need to have shops that locals need- hardware shops, clothing shops, pharmacies etc and not just have become tourist tat shops and bars- York city centre is a prime example of this - half the shambles are Harry Potter shops - despite no link Harry Potter (yet the tourists come and buy their wands!).

I think there is a weird idea that if it wasn't for tourism then the high street in these tourist places would be full of useful shops. Go down the majority of high streets in a non tourist towns and you will see that the shops are boarded up. The clothes shops and hardware shops you talk of are long gone. The streets often seem menacing and dangerous now. I would much rather a Harry Potter shop than an empty one.

It's also unrealistic to expect tourism not to impact locals. All trades and industries impact locals. Try living near a farm, factory or even a major commercial centre. It's very very difficult to accept all the positives of an industry and none of the negatives.

OP posts:

Crystalbits · 03/10/2024 16:38

Bumpitybumper · 03/10/2024 16:21

I find your language interesting. Should I be forced to live in less desirable areas because all the housing in desirable housing is earmarked for locals so they can be near their family and friends? Can you not see how this entrenches generational privilege and also inequality? If I can't live in a lovely place then neither can my kids or their kids etc. Meanwhile someone that happens to live in a lovely area can rest easy knowing that their descendants can all enjoy the area for generations to come.

All areas have their down sides. I would still choose to live where I currently live than where I was born. So would the vast majority of people.

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You’re lucky you can afford to live in a desirable place actually. Must of us stuck in dumps will never have that opportunity, we’re here for ever.
And those descendants you speak of will be priced out by wealthy incomers so it’s all academic.

QuickMember · 03/10/2024 16:37

5128gap · 03/10/2024 14:46

People do 'own' the most beautiful and desirable parts of the world though, don't they? They live there, they own the property there, they pay their council tax there, they contribute to and develop the community and set the culture there, so obviously their sense of ownership will be higher than someone turning up for a week in summer, and obviously they will feel put out if those people cause them inconvenience. The problem isn't about being territorial about the place you live, that's human nature, its more about who gets to live there. And unfortunately when it comes to beautiful and desirable places its the wealthy that get the monopoly, and the only way the less wealthy can get to experience them is to turn up for a week in summer and upset the residents.

Completely agree.

Squirrelsnut · 03/10/2024 16:37

Bumpitybumper · 03/10/2024 14:36

But what about people that are born and raised in areas that are less desirable and want to move to these desirable areas? Assuming that there is a very limited housing supply (which there usually is in these kinds of places) then why should locals get preference just because they were lucky enough to have been born there? I just think this is the ultimate in entitlement and entrenching generational privilege.

We all have our reasons for wanting to live somewhere and I don't think it's fair that locals are assumed to have more valid reasons. I also think holiday homes are fine if in use for large chunks of time. Without them then the tourist trade would really suffer as lots of people simply don't want hotels anymore

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I agree.

Cosyblankets · 03/10/2024 16:37

LastNight1Dreamt1WentToManderleyAgain · 03/10/2024 16:34

That's right, I don't. Had a lovely time in a B&B last month.

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And that's fine for you but lots of families prefer houses

Jessieshome · 03/10/2024 16:36

RugbyMom123 · 03/10/2024 14:55

YANBU

I grew up in Cobham. A perfect London suburb with a still functional high street. London on your door step, the Surrey hills next door. Great state schools.

I couldn't afford to stay obviously. The area has gone from Gin and Jag country to the Beverly Hills of the UK. Every other car is a lambo or new plate Range Rover.

Hence the name I now live in Rugby. A very much less desirable part of the world.

One day I may work my way back but it does make me laugh when people say they have a birth right to live where they are born. 😂

You really don't!

Funny, I grew up in Rugby! I can't afford a house in the area of Rugby I was brought up in, however I can afford a bigger house that the one I grew up in the beautiful touristy place I now live in. My husband is a local to this area which helped with getting on the property ladder here but it was still much much cheaper than the equivalent house would be in Rugby.

Many of the locals made me feel very miserable here for many years, not all of them but a good contingent, so many locals hate anyone who is not born here. I was desperate to get 'home' to Rugby despite having lived in various other locations for 10 years or so, but simply couldn't afford it. The people in the pretty place I live now would never dream of wanting to live in Rugby! Its a funny world. We need more houses and a variety of them and better management of Air B&B type lets, I think.

OrangeCarrot · 03/10/2024 16:35

Bumpitybumper · 03/10/2024 16:29

I have moved there but some locals definitely have an attitude that housing should be ear marked for local people and not rich outsiders.

Also concept like subsidised or reserved housing for local people is often floated which I am absolutely opposed to. Affordable housing for essential jobs is one thing but I don't think local people should be automatically prioritised. That goes against all social mobility models and engrains inequality.

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I agree with you OP.

I’m wondering if you’ve considered that this is the same problem we have with immigration.

I’m curious to know if you think we should have free, unrestricted immigration too as it’s not fair for someone born in Lebanon to not be able to improve their family’s lives by moving to the UK.

Would you factor in the consequences of mass migration from less fortunate countries to wealthier/safer ones?