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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To detest people that think they own beautiful parts of the world?

609 replies

Bumpitybumper · 03/10/2024 14:19

I grew up in a very ugly and undesirable part of the country and now live in a tourist hotspot. I am becoming increasingly frustrated by people that are born and raised here trying to restrict tourism or stop 'outsiders' moving here. The houses are expensive here because it's such a lovely place to live but there isn't much employment except for from tourism. Despite this many locals that I know feel that tourism should be restricted as it makes the town extremely busy in high season. They also think housing should be subsidised for locals.

I feel that there are only so many beautiful places and those lucky enough to be born in them are no more entitled to live and enjoy them than the rest of us who by luck were born elsewhere. This would effectively condemn future people like me to live and visit only the less desirable of areas whilst my children could stay in this lovely area and be subsidised for doing so. It just feels incredibly unfair!

OP posts:
bringslight · 03/10/2024 17:49

Don't go to the seaside exactly. We went to a lovely church in Devon and the people kind of understood we might want to move there. They were very positive and shared that they prefer people who move there and to put roots down the community, just as you want , poster, and rather not buy homes in bulk and rent them out

TheBluntTurtle · 03/10/2024 17:48

Autumnalfun · 03/10/2024 17:41

A local is someone who lives there. It isn’t necessarily someone born there.

well by local I meant someone who lives and works in an area - born there or elsewhere 😊

ObelixtheGaul · 03/10/2024 17:45

Is it really a privilege, though? You have mentioned low incomes in your area. It's a privilege if you are moneyed, but if you have to do multiple jobs and never get to enjoy it, it isn't quite the privilege that it seems to those who move for the beauty.

When you actually live as a local and not as an incomer with independent wealth, it's actually bloody hard. It can be rather insulting to hear how 'lucky' you are when you never see your beauty spot in the summer.

Not all incomers are wealthy, of course. I wasn't in the beauty spot I lived in before, and I am not now in the somewhat rundown seaside town I live in now. It might be why I have more local sympathy, though I do object to the idea that you have to live somewhere for generations to be 'local'.

A lot of people who moved to where I lived before were starting to complain about the things that went hand in hand with the beauty. They didn't bother to learn about the reality of actually living there, and the truth was, the moneyed people didn't actually really live that reality. And that was a problem for the proper locals. Incomers complaining about the fact that the beauty spot actually needed some messy bits to function.

MarkWithaC · 03/10/2024 17:45

hairbearbunches · 03/10/2024 17:35

Absolute crap! Until house prices went through the roof, people could remain where they had grown up, even in tourist hotspots.

How about in the industrial revolution? I don't think everyone stayed put in the countryside then.

twistyizzy · 03/10/2024 17:44

DinosaurMunch · 03/10/2024 17:24

Also: complain about the smell of muck spreading, noise from tractors, sound of church bells.. even the noise made by barn owls has been a cause of complaint round here

We have an abbatoir at the edge of our village, we'll signposted so you can't miss it. New couple moved up from down South and started complaining about the smell from the wagons coming out of the abbatoir ie raw meat smell. The same couple swaned around as if they were doing us a favour moving into the village and bestowing their largesse on us. They didn't interact with any community events or fundraising etc and then started bitching that the village was unwelcoming. Villages survive through community relationships and these 2 refused to join in but then couldn't understand why we weren't fawning all over them in the pub.
OP you sound exactly like them.
FYI we were newcomers 18 years ago but having a good understanding of what rural life involves, and getting stuck in to community events plus making an effort to get to know people, we were welcomed and are happy and settled.
Oh we also weren't rich outsiders who contribute to rising house prices.

independencefreedom · 03/10/2024 17:43

Bumpitybumper · 03/10/2024 17:09

Your comparisons of beauty and money are relevant. Some people are born with these things or born in a beautiful area. I think everyone accepts that we are all subject to luck and fortune in this regard.

Where it differs is that if I can't afford to maintain my looks or my fortune, can I ask the state to step in so that I can retain this privilege I was born with? I could argue that my family had been rich for generations and all my friends live in expensive areas but almost any sane person would accept that it isn't for the government to intervene so that I can sustain my advantage at the expense of others who will ultimately be funding this and denied the same privilege. Somehow living in a beautiful area is treated completely differently in some people's mind and they think that it's a lifelong, intergenerational entitlement.

I'm not bitter but just can't get how people can't see quite how entitled all of this is and how it will directly impact those who are born without privilege from ascertaining a home in a beautiful area.

But maybe people born there feel their wealth is their being born somewhere beautiful like a rich person is born with access to money. And yes, you can ask the state to step in regarding money if you lose it all. It's social welfare.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'ascertaining'.

Everywhere needs proper oversight of planning, and in some countries that includes not only the physical but also social environment. In Singapore, foreigners pay massive tax on property and cars unlike the locals, most nation states prioritise their civilian population over others. this is just happening at a more local level - and even then, some form of prioritising locals happens in plenty of places - for example, planning permission for new build houses is only given to people who have demonstrated local links in certain parts of Ireland and so on.

You sound terribly angry and disrespectful of the local community as you seem completely unable to understand their perspective.

hairbearbunches · 03/10/2024 17:42

@Bumpitybumper @Autumnalfun people have always moved much further afield to find work, particularly when industries collapsed, but not to find cheap housing. They might have bought a first home in a village down the way, but not a whole other county.

Autumnalfun · 03/10/2024 17:41

TheBluntTurtle · 03/10/2024 17:40

I never said there shouldn’t be any holiday lets- I said it needs to be regulated so the numbers of holiday lets are sustainable, not removing too much housing stock and is assessed for its impacts on residents. That way tourists can still visit, tourists have safe accommodation which meets their needs, towns get tourism and jobs for locals, there’s still somewhere for locals to live 😊

A local is someone who lives there. It isn’t necessarily someone born there.

TheBluntTurtle · 03/10/2024 17:40

Cosyblankets · 03/10/2024 17:33

I use booking.com I don't like air bnb but whatever way people do it lots of people want to stay in a cottage etc. Licensed or not this still removes houses from the housing market. But as I said in a previous post, and as many other posters have pointed out, the vendors could make sure their house is sold to a family from the local area. But they don't, they sell to the highest bidder.
My husband comes from an area where there's a lot of tourism, there's no other industry there, factories etc have closed and there simply isn't the infrastructure for other industries to open. The roads are too small etc so there are no jobs, so many people of working age have moved away. If there was no tourism there would be nothing there.

I never said there shouldn’t be any holiday lets- I said it needs to be regulated so the numbers of holiday lets are sustainable, not removing too much housing stock and is assessed for its impacts on residents. That way tourists can still visit, tourists have safe accommodation which meets their needs, towns get tourism and jobs for locals, there’s still somewhere for locals to live 😊

Autumnalfun · 03/10/2024 17:40

blueoverwhite · 03/10/2024 17:35

If there isn't affordable housing, who do you think is going to be working in the shops and bars and cafes and attractions that the tourists use?

I ve never know a place yet thay can’t staff these jobs.

BlackShuck3 · 03/10/2024 17:39

ShillyShallySherbet · 03/10/2024 16:25

The houses are expensive here because it's such a lovely place to live but there isn't much employment except for from tourism

This is where the real problem lies but YANBU

Doesn't this mean that house prices will collapse in the end because no businesses or services will be able to operate due to lack of staff?

Autumnalfun · 03/10/2024 17:39

hairbearbunches · 03/10/2024 17:35

Absolute crap! Until house prices went through the roof, people could remain where they had grown up, even in tourist hotspots.

You need to brush up on your history. Moving for work or affordable housing has gone on for well over a century,

Marchitectmummy · 03/10/2024 17:38

It's on trend to do this, not just UK beauty spots but around Europe. Attitudes across Europe are becoming a different place to it has been.

Bumpitybumper · 03/10/2024 17:38

blueoverwhite · 03/10/2024 17:35

If there isn't affordable housing, who do you think is going to be working in the shops and bars and cafes and attractions that the tourists use?

I never said there shouldn't be affordable housing just that locals shouldn't necessarily be prioritised for this affordable housing.

OP posts:
Bumpitybumper · 03/10/2024 17:36

hairbearbunches · 03/10/2024 17:35

Absolute crap! Until house prices went through the roof, people could remain where they had grown up, even in tourist hotspots.

That's not true at all. Lots of people had to leave their communities to afford a reasonable standard of life. It's a tale as old as time.

OP posts:
hairbearbunches · 03/10/2024 17:35

Autumnalfun · 03/10/2024 17:28

People have never been able to live where they can’t afford. Since time began they have moved out for work or housing. If someone wants to live where they were born they need to earn the money to do so.

Absolute crap! Until house prices went through the roof, people could remain where they had grown up, even in tourist hotspots.

schloss · 03/10/2024 17:35

DinosaurMunch · 03/10/2024 17:24

Also: complain about the smell of muck spreading, noise from tractors, sound of church bells.. even the noise made by barn owls has been a cause of complaint round here

Yes I could have typed a much longer list but I think (I hope) everyone got the idea!

blueoverwhite · 03/10/2024 17:35

Bumpitybumper · 03/10/2024 14:36

But what about people that are born and raised in areas that are less desirable and want to move to these desirable areas? Assuming that there is a very limited housing supply (which there usually is in these kinds of places) then why should locals get preference just because they were lucky enough to have been born there? I just think this is the ultimate in entitlement and entrenching generational privilege.

We all have our reasons for wanting to live somewhere and I don't think it's fair that locals are assumed to have more valid reasons. I also think holiday homes are fine if in use for large chunks of time. Without them then the tourist trade would really suffer as lots of people simply don't want hotels anymore

If there isn't affordable housing, who do you think is going to be working in the shops and bars and cafes and attractions that the tourists use?

MarkWithaC · 03/10/2024 17:35

Soukmyfalafel · 03/10/2024 16:45

I think you are wrong OP. Why should I be forced to move away from my family because tons of Londoners decide I live in a desirable area? I have been paying into the local economy for years, supported my town in becoming that desirable place in the first place and have presumably made tourists feel welcome, so why should I be priced out? I don't even live in that much of a desirable town aesthetically - the homes tend to be small and its very built up, but many people move to work here due to access of the rest of the county. I'm less bothered by that, it's the second home owners and air bnbs that do bother me because it has ruined a lot of local businesses and reduced housing supply, and there isn't much space here to just build the homes that people need either.

I think it's a shame to lose local people from an area. It loses its character. A lot of the areas built for Londoners in Devon are soulless now as local people have moved out and are empty mych of the time. Some of the private road communities just look very depressing. I don't get why you would want to move to a ghost town anyway.

Why is it all/only 'tons of Londoners'? Do people from other parts of the UK not come on holiday?

Cosyblankets · 03/10/2024 17:33

TheBluntTurtle · 03/10/2024 16:51

Not all holiday cottages are air bnbs - holiday cottages which have gone through the proper planning permission regime are fine as the impact of it is assessed and decided whether it is appropriate. The problem with air bnb is that they are supposed to be short term lets of homes (up to 90 days/yr) and used as a home the rest of the time. If you want to run a year round holiday let business you need to apply for change of use planning permission from residential dwelling to holiday let. This would then allow the council to assess if the loss of that dwelling as a home could in combination with other holiday lets lead to housing shortages or if the location is inappropriate for a holiday let (could it result in disruption for residents etc). In reality this doesn’t happen - people run them as year round holiday lets without the required permission contributing to housing shortages worldwide in tourist hotspots and issues for residents. There’s lots of news articles on this and Barcelona had banned air bnb as it’s been such an issue there (Edinburgh and York might follow next)…

I use booking.com I don't like air bnb but whatever way people do it lots of people want to stay in a cottage etc. Licensed or not this still removes houses from the housing market. But as I said in a previous post, and as many other posters have pointed out, the vendors could make sure their house is sold to a family from the local area. But they don't, they sell to the highest bidder.
My husband comes from an area where there's a lot of tourism, there's no other industry there, factories etc have closed and there simply isn't the infrastructure for other industries to open. The roads are too small etc so there are no jobs, so many people of working age have moved away. If there was no tourism there would be nothing there.

MarkWithaC · 03/10/2024 17:32

Bumpitybumper · 03/10/2024 16:31

Also who is an outsider. I was born and raised elsewhere but my kids have lived here all their lives. Do they now have the same claim as someone that has generations of family here? What about if someone moves away for a time and wants to come back? I have seen concepts of culture, language, networks mentioned on this thread. Very complex and potentially offensive ideas when you think about immigration and race.

Yes, quite. Once you start making rules/putting people into categories, things get very tricky very fast.

Smallsalt · 03/10/2024 17:31

Bumpitybumper · 03/10/2024 15:02

The mad thing is that ultimately they want to restrict outsiders ability to live and even visit their area even if this means the local economy suffers. They then of course will be wanting huge state subsidies from the restricted people to fund the local people's way of life as it's just not an economically viable place to live without tourism and rich outsiders moving in.

It really is extreme entitlement!

You sound like exactly the why "they" resent entitled incomers.

Mamabear04 · 03/10/2024 17:29

I think the main problem is that the local council aren't managing the tourism very well and they put the locals second. I see it all the time where I live and the little inconveniences such as taking over car parks for tourist buses or people who only shop at big supermarkets and don't spend money at local businesses make these hostilities add up over time. It's very frustrating.

Nosleepforthismum · 03/10/2024 17:29

I think the affordable housing aimed at locals is so that people that actually physically work in the area (builders, hospitality staff, cleaners, nurses, supermarket staff) can afford to buy homes where they work. I live in a tourist area and I’ve heard a lot of comments about airbnbs and second home owners but we have loads of “locals” that never grew up in the area that are liked and respected.

BoundaryGirl3939 · 03/10/2024 17:28

Because obviously the property goes to whoever has the most money.

It's also an area in which a minority language is spoken, and trying to be preserved. And most of these outsiders are speaking English.