We will dance again

But that's bullshit though

Okay, thank you.
All that is good to hear.

What you tend to find when people are told their comments are anti semetic (talking in general here, not about any specific posters) is that yes, they'll have criticised the Israeli government, but then they'll have said something else such as describing them as Nazis, referencing the holocaust in a particular way, implying that Jews control the media etc etc...then when they are called out, they complain that all they did was criticise the Israeli government and you can't say anything without being accused of anti semetism.

So would you consider someone saying they didn't completely agree with your analysis to be antisemitic - ie saying they hold Hamas responsible, but don't believe the Israeli government can absolve themselves of the responsibility for children's deaths when they're the ones ordering the attacks?

No I definitely wouldn't think anyone was antisemitic for holding that viewpoint.

Look, I don't have any solutions but it seems sometimes if you don't show unwavering support of the Israeli government you are called an antisemite

No you're not. I really wish people would stop saying this.

So would you consider someone saying they didn't completely agree with your analysis to be antisemitic - ie saying they hold Hamas responsible, but don't believe the Israeli government can absolve themselves of the responsibility for children's deaths when they're the ones ordering the attacks?

Look, I don't have any solutions but it seems sometimes if you don't show unwavering support of the Israeli government you are called an antisemite.

to think the Israeli government is going too far/taking the wrong approach in an effort to defend itself? How can the deaths of thousands of children be justified?

I can give my perspective on this. The deaths are horrific and tragic but I believe that Hamas must shoulder the lion's share of the blame, both due to provoking the war through their actions on 7 October, and by deliberately embedding themselves in civilian infrastructure. In fact they seek as many civilian deaths as possible as these are their most valuable propaganda tool.

I can absolutely understand why Israel can no longer entertain having Hamas as a neighbour.

No, not at all.

ETA that was in answer to your last question.

Is it not possible to be very sympathetic to the horror Israel faced on Oct 7th, to consider Hamas terrorists, to be supportive of Jewish people, but to think the Israeli government is going too far/taking the wrong approach in an effort to defend itself? How can the deaths of thousands of children be justified?
Do people assume you're antisemitic if you say this is wrong too?

I actually used to be hugely critical of Israel, I genuinely believed that they exaggerated the threat they were under in order to justify their actions and expand West Bank settlements.

My mind changed in one instant when I opened twitter on 7 October last year and saw the footage of Shani Louk's body on the back of a pickup truck like a hunting trophy. At that point I realised the existential threat Israel faced, and I've supported them ever since.

But borders were redrawn, new homelands/countries created and millions upon millions of people were resettled in troubled parts of the world post WW2.

Yes of course it does, I’m just pie in the sky thinking. I’m just saying that setting up a peaceful homeland post WW2 in already troubled part of the world was bound to fail.

If you prefer the left wing point of view here's an excerpt from an evenhanded feature by Jonathan Freedland in the Guardian -
Inside Israel, the last two weeks are understood as the country at last hitting back against the proxies of the regime that constitutes the true danger to the Middle East – namely, Iran and its theocratic rulers. For years, Iran has encircled Israel with a “ring of fire” that includes the three Hs: Hamas, the Houthis in Yemen and, most well-armed of the three, Hezbollah, wielding an enormous arsenal and the power of a state within a state. These actors and Iran are not, incidentally, simply in the business of ending the injustice of Israel’s post-1967 occupation: their stated goal is to end Israel itself.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/oct/04/israel-israelis-gaza-war-7-october-anniversary

Where exactly would you have set up a Jewish state? Do you not think that Jewish people having a homeland in their actual homeland makes a lot more sense?

Yes - I can’t imagine any Jewish people would want to discuss anti semitism with anyone who’s likely to give them a lecture about the terrible things happening in Gaza. Because that’s what happens on mumsnet ..

Does it feel a bit unfair when your entire nation is demonised due to the hateful actions and sentiments of some people within it?

Of course that's not your experience as you're not Jewish and it's highly unlikely that your Jewish friends and neighbours would discuss with a non-Jew any antisemitism they experienced in a country with such deeply ingrained antisemitism where they're a tiny, precarious minority.

Tried to match your energy.
Sadly this just leads to derailing of the discussion, so I'll stick to my word this time, over and out.

I know right...also the implication that I need to calm down.

in the meantime I recommend camomile tea for you.
How patronising can you be!

I hope you're right that the vast majority don't think like this. DD went to Trinity Dublin to study for 4 years. Her best friend there, a highly intelligent and now well known writer, expressed her views and their friendship was destroyed. I suspect many younger (under age 40) Irish people feel the same as DD's ex friend.

“can't even talk to my irish family and friends about this topic because I know what their stance would probably be. They dont understand because they dont know any jews and only see it through the lens of the irish situation, even though it's really nothing like it.”
This is very true - many see it through a simple black and white lens of Ireland’s struggle against a colonial oppressor and cannot see that this conflict is not the same.

That's it for me, in the meantime I recommend camomile tea for you

Honestly you are coming across as incredibly unpleasant

Comparing Israel to the Nazis is considered to be anti semetic. This is not just by me but by many many organisations. Like I said have a look at gov dot UK and the definition of anti semetism

Well I'm from tallaght so maybe that's the difference lol. But seriously, I'm not demonizing the country. What did you think of the recent Michael d Higgins debacle? That was embarrassing and shows that he absolutely has a bias.