We will dance again

Its a nonsense. Remember that antisemites project their worse beliefs and behaviours onto the Jews. Every accusation is a confession.

They don't "hate Jews" they just hate their children being killed by Israelis.

So explain the anti-semitism in other Middle Eastern countries then.

If you missed it

@LetThereBeLove

You know this for a fact, do you? Israeli schools teach Israeli children to hate Palestinians.

Corrected this for you. HTH.

@LetThereBeLove it's not victim blaming to question the location of a music festival. I'm aware that lots of Israeli's that live on the border are proponents of peace. Unfortunately there is also a long and well documented history of Israeli snipers shooting people as they go about their business near that border, including children.
That's been normalised. And that's not ok. Nor in my view is holding a music festival pretty much on that border.
What happened at that music festival was unspeakable and unthinkable. And should not have happened and was not the fault of the people attending or organising it. It was the fault of the disgusting Hamas 'operatives' involved.
But the location is in my view symptomatic of the normalisation of the fact that Gaza has effectively been a prison for those that live there for decades and no one has batted an eye lid to any effect about that for years.

Calling it victim blaming is exactly what I'm talking about. This debate can never be had effectively because people on either side are very quick to shout 'anti Islam', 'anti semitism' 'victim blaming' etc etc

And so the whole mess perpetuates .

Completely agree.

Shameful.

You know this for a fact, do you? Hamas teach Palestinian children to hate Jews.

They don't "hate Jews" they just hate their children being killed by Israelis.

Lets call this what it is pure racism, just like the Nazi's, who killed 6 million Jewish people.

Let's call it what it is - Jew hatred.

Most countries of the rest of the Middle East does not want Israel to exist because they hate Jews.

And the casual anti-Semitism I hear from even the nicest people I know & teach from the Arabic/Islamic ME shocks me daily.

I was with you right up until you mentioned the location of the Nova festival. Pure victim blaming.
You may or not he aware that the kibbutzim close to the border with.Gaza were inhabited by Israelis who had good relationships with their Palestinian neighbours and many of those butchered on 7 October by Hamas and Gazans were proponents of peace.

I suppose it's more difficult to be certain about what's going on in Gaza and who is responsible for every single child killed.Less phone footage given that even before 7/10 they didn't have the infrastructure to the same degree we have, or Israel has, and since it's now been bombed to hell, I would imagine they have very little access to the Internet now. No one to document what's happening there with any reliability.

Both or all sides in this are behaving abominably and have done for decades. It's not anti semitic to say that. It's not anti Palestinian either. We get tied down in this rhetoric and debate and meanwhile 11000 kids are dead.

Specifically re the nova music festival-it was awful. One of the worst atrocities of all time. I've watched the documentary and I sobbed. Unimaginable horror. I have DD's 17 and 18 and I don't know that I'd be able to carry on if I was the parents of those girls that were violated and killed. Not sure I'd have the strength to live with it.

However there is a nagging question in my mind about the wisdom ( Or the appropriate nature maybe? ) Of holding a festival half a mile from the Gaza Strip where people have been contained and attacked consistently for decades. Kids the same age as those dancing at the festival trapped behind the wall for the their whole lives, listening to people having a party on the other side. Nothing justifies it, it goes without saying. But were I a Gazan teenager how would I have felt? Is it this stuff, as well as the other conditions Gazans have lived under, that leads to generations of people continuing in the hatred of one another that results in the situation we are now witnessing?

I think alot about the people killed and being killed in this conflict. I wish there was some way it could stop but I don't see how it ever will at this point.

Hamas claim that there have been approximately 41,000 casualties in Gaza over this period but doesn't distinguish between between civilian and Hamas members.

It basically doesn't admit to any deaths being anything other than civilian.

I feel like posters are being very disingenious but not acknowledging why Israel is currently going into Lebanon. Like a year's worth of rocket attacks just doesn't exist.

According to IDF data, some 17,000 Hamas operatives and members of other terror groups have been killed by the IDF in the Gaza Strip since the beginning of the war. Hamas claim that there have been approximately 41,000 casualties in Gaza over this period but doesn't distinguish between between civilian and Hamas members.

The IDF aren't giving a figure of the number of Palestinian civilians killed, are they?

Because Hamas are completely full of shit, it's important not to place reliance on any analysis or estimate that uses their figures. Quite why Oxfam thought it was appropriate to do so is a mystery. I understand why ordinary people watching the news or reading an article might not realise that the numbers ultimately come from Hamas, but Oxfam will know. And they'll also be aware that ordinary Palestinians and aid workers can't speak freely in Gaza either, look at what they did to poor Islam Hejazy. If I worked for the Gaza Ministry of Health I expect I'd do what Hamas told me.

Perhaps there aren't any 100% accurate figures, but the closest we will get for no2. Due to the amount of civilian infrastructure hit and the state of Gaza, it must be a staggering amount.

Both Hamas and the IDF have been caught out telling huge whoppers, it is hard to find reliable information as neither can be trusted. It would be needed by an independent organisation but that is probably unfeasible at the moment.

Yep. It most certainly does not cite a reliable source on the number of Gaza deaths, because there isn't one.

Hi, good evening, this uses the same contested sources as the other Oxfam press release discussed earlier in the thread. There are no reliable figures about Gaza because all come from Hamas who have every incentive to lie and have been shown to do so.

I can't imagine what it must be like, it is a constant worry for him too. He is Lebanese but I doubt he will be able to go there for some time, now. I don't know if they have anything like bomb shelters there, I really hope they do.

I know it wasn't me you asked, but this article cites many reliable sources and Oxfam aren't biased, they take a neutral stance calling for an end to deaths of Palestinian and Israeli civilians.

https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/more-women-and-children-killed-gaza-israeli-military-any-other-recent-conflict

@Aix They really do.

I'm so sorry to hear that, it must be so terrifying for them. I hope they can find somewhere safe to stay

The IDF have an awful track record of abusing people, and much of it has been caught on camera.

A friend's parents, in Lebanon, have just been told to evacuate as Israeli forces will be targeting the area. He is beside himself, offered to book and pay for flights to get them out, but they have no passports and are very elderly, so have said they will just have to take their chances. 😞

I dont know if any inquest was finally published by the army took so long to respond?
Also, was it ever known, seeing how the rave was announced very last minute on social media, if the terrorists somehow knew of it in advance and planned the attack, or was it just something that happened and they used an opportunity?

There has been no definitive inquest or enquiry yet - Israel is at war and until it is over there won't be one. The terrorists apparently didn't know about the rave but since it was s close to the border it quickly became apparent that there was an 'opportunity' as you put it, to attack these young people.

As reported in this morning's Guardian:
Hezbollah, the Iran-backed Lebanese militant group, have vowed to keep up the fight against Israeli “aggression” and called Israel a “cancerous gland that must be eliminated, no matter how long it takes”.
So for those people who praise Hezbollah by marching in London on Saturday give your heads a wobble. Pure antisemitism.

What facts do you have about the deaths in Gaza?