We will dance again

I think you are trying to placate yourself that it's a minority of posters who think Israel have gone too far and are appalled by their actions. Maybe it is too difficult for you to accept that it is actually the MAJORITY.

Do you want to buy a bridge?

I don’t think anyone’s starving, these cakes look delicious!:

x.com/imshin/status/1841117271340585174?s=46

Nothing justifies Hamas' actions but nothing justifies Israels disproportionate response and escalation either.
To draw parallels with wars between two nation states is not helpful
One things for sure, Israel cannot bomb itself to peace. The whole strategy is completely flawed and will just lead to further ongoing conflict and mass suffering, but I don't see leaders on either side being wise and brave enough to break the cycle.

That's just a coincidence.

So.... what about the innocent people who were herded into the ever-decreasing Gaza strip and then starved, denied aid and repeatedly bombed.... where do they fit in ?

Every few years Israel will respond to an attack and step up their response, this is reported on the news. What is not reported on the news is the daily treatment of Palestinian people, the ongoing attacks and indignities. It doesn’t stop just because the news media gets bored of it. Israel is also trying very hard to expand their territory through illegal settlements. Ie just helping themselves to Palestinian land. Agree hamas is disgusting. But please stop simplifying it. Both sides are wrong. It’s never ending revenge and retribution. Like others I believe hamas and hezbollah are trying to turn the world against Israel through these acts and unfortunately Israel’s response is not helping that.

Gaza has been absolutely fucking decimated, and now Israel are bombing another two? Three? Countries. Poor, poor Israel. 🙄

Yes, countries that bombed Israel first! They're not just doing it for shits and giggles. Do people honestly just expect them to take it?

Some of the rot on this thread make your eyes water. However it's a conflict and during a conflict there's a lot of cognitive dissonance.

The 'Palestinians' are human beings, let's not forget that amongst all the propaganda.**

Yikes. I've heard it all now.

Hahahahaha. Still on about “genocide”? I’m sure Mumsent will let it slide though because they never seem to do anything much about propaganda. You believe that then love, go ahead, and that’s what the problem is with the world.
But hey Ho, no Jews no news.

The Nakba was an attempt to ethnically cleanse Palestine and the Israeli government have called the invasion the second Nakba. They've also openly talked about plans to drive the Palestinians into Egypt and used genocidal language to describe obliterating Gaza. Their actions speak for themselves.

This! I've said this before on another thread but after WW1 the allies drew up the treaty of Versailles which as we know punished Germany severely. German people were suffering on an unimaginable scale.

Then the inevitable happened and they backed the one person who offered to get them out of that hole and it obviously led to WW2 and the holocaust. It genuinely amazes me that nothing has been learned from this at all. When we treat our fellow human beings like shit and they will give their support to anyone who is supporting them - even if on an global level it is clearly the wrong choice.

Now obviously October the 7th was an absolute atrocity but it's very disingenuous to suggest that it all started that day.

Equally the op asking if people even learn about the holocaust these days. Of course people do but I'm not 100% sure of the relevance because it wasn't Palestinians who caused the holocaust. If we're saying the holocaust is one of the reasons why there's a need for a Jewish homeland (and actually I 100% understand why after centuries of antisemitism that this was wanted) then a) somebody needs to decide how many lives we're willing to sacrifice to achieve that and b) What the parameters of that homeland are because random Americans turning up and putting an Arab grandma out of her family home under right to return isn't really in the spirit of the idea I don't think.

What rubbish, you should educate yourself in the history going back to 1948. At no point has Israel denied the existence of Palestine. There were many attempts to create a 2 state solution but all offers were rejected by the Palestinians even when the split of the land was not in Israel’s favour.

Nothing, absolutely nothing will ever justify (in my mind) what hamas did that day, and never will.

I completely agree with this. I don't dispute that the Palestinians have suffered terribly over many years, but regardless of what the state of Israel may have done, those innocent people that experienced the atrocities at the festival and in the kibbutzes on October 7th were not responsible for any of it. No matter how much you support the Palestinian cause, it simply is not possible to justify what Hamas did.

But I feel exactly the same about the killing of innocent civilisns in Gaza and Lebanon. No matter what those Hamas terrorists did on October 7th, the innocent civilians in Gaza and Lebanon were not responsible for any of it, and the suffering that they are now enduring as a result of Israel's retaliation simply cannot be justified.

I watched it. Really important documentary. Up until that moment I hadn’t really had a chance to think and reflect properly on what happened as it was so quickly cast aside by further death and atrocity.

Good is the wrong word but I have felt it’s been ‘right’ that I have had the chance to reflect on the atrocity the past few days and I could have in mind those who were killed, who fought back, who sacrificed themselves and those who saved others.

Some incredible acts of kindness, selflessness and bravery. That sadly have not had as much recognition and reflection as they should. Because it’s been overshadowed. And here we are again.

That documentary was about them being killed. And here you are making it about killing others.

Sad. And you think younger generations are the problem. Mind boggling.

Eventually Israel will be the maker of it's own undoing while the West sits back totally spineless watching the disaster unfold.

I hate these threads because all the CIME queen bees buzz onto main threads with the same old same old

OP. the documentary was incredibly moving and showed that Hamas are lower than the low

What happened in Israel on 7th October was utterly horrific and it is deeply distressing to hear about the atrocities that were perpetrated by Hamas, and the unimaginable suffering of those poor, innocent people who were so unjustly targeted. It's heartbreaking.

But I don't think it's possible to justify the massive loss of life of innocent civilians as a response to this. It absolutely isn't a proportionate response, and the deaths of every single innocent life in Gaza and in Lebanon is every bit as heartbreaking as what happened in Israel last October. Frankly I'm amazed that anyone is still trying to justify it as self defence as it has gone way beyond that. It also won't make Israel any safer in the longer term - it will only create a new generation of Palestinians and others who hate Israel and see it as a threat that needs to be eliminated in order to ensure their own safety.

And if you genuinely think it's reasonable for Israel to kill tens of thousands of innocent civilians in Gaza and Lebanon as a form of self defence, would you think it equally reasonable if similar numbers were killed in Israel by innocent communities in Gaza and Lebanon seeking to defend themselves from what will undoubtedly be perceived by them as an unprovoked Israeli attack? Where does it end?

I'm honestly not sure why you would bring the Iraq war in as if that somehow changes the equation. Many of us marched against that war at the time, and many more believed that war crimes had been committed by those responsible. Likewise, I don't think many people who have visited Hiroshima or Nagasaki would argue that the use of the atomic bombs was justifiable.

Israel does have a right to self defence, of course. But true self defence would have involved a much more targeted approach that the indiscriminate attacks that we have seen. I can't get my head around how anyone can think that what's happening right now is a reasonable response, unless they see the victim as somehow being subhuman to the extent that their lives just don't count in the same way. I don't understand it.

Israel is ethnically cleansing Palestine. I don't see how that can be an acceptable way for Israel to "defend itself". Why would anyone want to live on that land anyway, aside from Palestinians returning to reclaim it as their homes? Who else would actually want to build new homes and sell them to foreign buyers? Oh yeah, Israel.

Ah yes, that free and unrestricted country, Palestine. There's a reason than Gaza and the West Bank are known as occupied territories - long before last year.

Aren't you forgetting that hamas is the elected government of Gaza?
Remind me again when the Palestinians had a free election.