We will dance again

I know there were ordinary Palestinians cheering on October 7th but those kind of street riots bring out the worst kind of people. ( Think of the riots in Britain in the summer) Most normal people would have stayed firmly indoors with their families- probably very fearful about the repercussions.

I think you misunderstood my point. I’m absolutely not saying that all Palestinians support Hamas - but just pointing out that Hamas certainly doesn’t support Palestinians… ( ie they knew their actions would cause harm for Palestinians and didn’t care)
Also - I think it’s completely unreasonable for anyone living in a place of safety to judge the Palestinians for not resisting Hamas. If I was Palestinian I would be far too scared to openly protest against them. My priority would be trying to ensure my family’s survival.

I mean, you get kids and people harassing people everywhere. Not often do they have gund pointing at them within seconds. You travel around the world and people come to talk to you sometimes if they see you are being a tourist. I was approached by people all over wanting to practise their English or asked to buy souvenirs. Israel was the only time people with guns tried to move the kids away and it's hard to think they would do the same if the kids were Israeli.

My point was that it was not an isolated event if the soldiers reacted so quickly and to be honest somehow I didnt feel safe at all.

By all means clarify where I'm mistaken but that is what you laid out in your posts. You made a disgusting comment with the obvious implication that the children we are seeing blown apart, injured, mourning and going through what must be absolute hell aren't innocent and I note you don't even want to clarify that you didn't mean that. Disgusting.

Actually they weren't Israelis. They were all Jews who had lived for thousands of years alongside the Arab populations of Egypt, Syria, Iraq etc which, until the end of the First World War, was part of the Ottoman Empire.

Clearly not. However they (or their descendents) are Israelis now.

I have genuinely not seen anyone not want Hamas removed though? Where have you seen that?

I'd like to know how anyone thinks Hamas is getting removed if there is a ceasefire, for instance.

Just an afterthought. That's not how syllogisms work.

...Nah. Seeing videos showing some Gazans doesn't represent a whole group. Or, as I said before, should I take the tiktok videos from quite a few Israelis laughing at and celebrating the destruction of Gaza and their lack of clean water to represent the whole of Israel?

it goes back further than decades. Arabs were massacring Jewish villages throughout the Ottoman Empire. Non-Muslims were prevented from bearing arms and couldn't even defend themselves
It goes back to whatever suit the narrative. Why can't people get that that's what the problem is?

You can argue for centuries who started it first and therefore who is the guilty party that should hold their hands up.

Or you can argue for as long as to who is in the most need of protecting their nations.

Or who has the most right to land ownership because they suffer the most.

Focusing on the above will take nobody anywhere and that's why the war goes on and on and why no organisation has found a mean for negotiation, let alone conflict resolution.

It will only end when the past is acknowledged but left behind and leaders are intelligent enough to understand this. Sadly, none has shown any side of it and their supporters continue to want to prove their entitlement.

Then there was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem who was close friends with Hitler and holidayed in his personal residence in Berlin. That's before Israel was even formed.

Yes there's been violence between both sides but for hundreds of years Jews were the victims both of oppression and subjugation, and of violence.

@Ponoka7 it goes back further than decades. Arabs were massacring Jewish villages throughout the Ottoman Empire. Non-Muslims were prevented from bearing arms and couldn't even defend themselves

Just watched the channel 4 documentary One Day in October. Even old Palestinians with walking sticks were coming into Israel to loot.

I do believed it happened. However I think that other groups of people on both sides quite welcome this conflict, even if they didn't fund/help plan etc. It did momentarily shift the support from the Palestinians. You seem to see the Palestinians as ants, who should be eradicated. As said, this didn't start on 7/10/23. It goes back decades. You conveniently ignore the previous behaviour of Isreal.

@MonaLisaDoesntSmile when I was in Israel I was harassed while I was laying on the beach by Palestinian kids who ran up and started kicking sand on me. Maybe that's a common occurrence and the police were just looking out for you? Not saying my scenario is correct but it's a possibility based on my experience

@vivainsomnia or maybe people in Gaza aren't rising up against Hamas because they support them. They were celebrating in the streets on October 7th as hostages were being transported into Gaza, one guy was kissing the ground 😵‍💫

This thread reminds me how easy it is to blame, belittle, justify violence in the name of whatever suits, from one's comfy sofa!

Yeah, why isn't there a revolution in Gaza against Hamas? Then Israel can be satisfied that there are no more enemies and everybody can live happy ever after within peace and complete trust!

The reality is that we are talking about people just like us, people whose priority is to protect and support those they love. If that means doing nothing to do so, that's what they do.

How many parents here take the risk to see your children killed because you decided to rebel? When ultimately, you have absolutely no trust that anyone else will then take care of you?

It really makes me sick to read strangers judging those people on the basis that they are nothing like them and that ultimately, their problems are so far removed from their own lives and experience.

Too many people who have lost all sense of true empathy.

@PollyPaintsFlowers, your list is the best example of selective editing to suit the narrative.

I am not getting into the debate of who is right or wrong, but the undermining of what happened to individuals around 1948 is very sad.

If your country was suddenly invaded, and you were told to leave everything behind and come back to your home, would you really blindly believe them? Wouldn't it be a bit naive to do so at the time? It's easy to look at the situation in retrospective.

Also, you seem to have completely omitted the Zionist terrorist groups (Irgun) which although small, were growing with their aggressive attacks, ie King David attack.

Again, it's easy to look at it in retrospective and conclude that they were really harmless. The reality is that locals must have been petrified that they could take over, take revenge for what happened to the Jews and not care who were the innocent victims.

I'm pretty sure I would have fled the not shortly after to protect my family. It must be hard not to build resentment when you leave everything behind and come back to find your house had been destroyed and replaced, or when you are still to scared to come back and have to accept a new standard of living much below what you were used to through no fault of yours.

Well quite.

Just like we had to what? Please do tell us a situation where we were in the same situation as the people of Palestine.

You're once again ignoring the facts though and pretending that if Palestinians had or could rise up and defeat Hamas themselves that they would be safe from the brutality of the IDF and they wouldn't. That's why they aren't safe from the IDF in the territories not governed by Hamas either. Do you ever ask yourself why or bother to research why the Israeli government funded Hamas? Perhaps you should educate yourself before you post something as ignorant as reducing this situation to Nazi Germany comparison 🤨

Yes that is for the past year. But what about before that since 2006? If the Palestinians are not going to usurp Hamas who is (without civilian casualties)? To me Hamas are like the Nazis and Palestinians are the Germans who we killed in their millions. And yes I would find it hard to resist people that would kill me too but someone's got to just like we had to in the war. Hamas have received billions of aid and could have built a great country, but opted to build tunnels and be consumed with hatred.

I think they're a bit busy being fleeing from place to place for over a year fleeing bombs and trying not to die from starvation and disease to be protesting right now. The whole discussion of Hamas regarding the treatment of innocent Palestinians is moot anyway when they're treated the same way in the territories where there is no Hamas. It's almost like deflecting the discussion about the disregard for Palestinian lives is the point.

What you see isn't the majority of normal citizens. Are the Israelis who were all over tiktok posting videos mocking Gazans for not having access to fresh water, or singing, laughing and celebrating the destruction of Gaza representative of Israel as a whole?

I have thought about your question regarding resisting before, and without having been in that situation, I would say no, I would not openly resist. I would not support Hamas, but I would also not be brave/stupid enough to openly protest against the men holding automatic weapons with the power to also hurt and kill my children for my actions. I would likely quietly avoid them and hope that one day they were ousted.

Is there a resistance against Hamas in Gaza? All I have seen is normal citizens keeping hostages captive, cheering in the streets and spitting on dead bodies but surely they're must be some people resisting and protesting even if it puts their lives at risk. If not they are hamas's people.

Actually they weren't Israelis. They were all Jews who had lived for thousands of years alongside the Arab populations of Egypt, Syria, Iraq etc which, until the end of the First World War, was part of the Ottoman Empire.

I find the association of Hamas and the Palestinian people as "their own" part of the reason why people are watching thousands of people die without being more outraged. Innocent Palestinians do not belong to Hamas - they are people with no agency trapped and most of them raised from birth in what is effectively a prison with a terrorist organisation while they're also being bombed and shot at by an army that you're giving prompts to for "protecting their own" and the lazy association of them as "Hamas' people" is exactly the kind of attitude enabling the world to look away from how unjust the situation is.