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We will dance again

560 replies

namechange11112222 · 02/10/2024 12:24

I have just watched this documentary and it broke my heart.
Hamas are revolting monsters, I can't call them animals because animals wouldn't even do that.

I do wonder how the younger, very outspoken generation would:

  1. Feel if that was a festival they went to and watched their friends get slaughtered
  2. Have said if there were social media at the time of WW2

Would we have been viewed in the same way Israel has been? The causalities of war were far greater.

I do not support the way in which Benjamin Netanyahu is going about this war at all but I 100% agree with Israel's right to defend itself.

They seem to be the only war I can think of where a country being attacked from all sides, from countries who do want mass extermination of Jewish people (do the younger generation still get taught about the holocaust anymore) who are repeatedly being told to stand down by the west.

To remind the younger generation of previous war casualties (for anyone with the argument that this war is completely out of proportion):

WW1

  • UK - 885,000 deaths
  • Germany - over 2 million deaths

WW2 - is this proportionate?

  • 1.5 - 3 million deaths in Germany
  • 210,000 dead - Nuclear bombs into Japan
  • 70,000 innocent dead - England

Iraq War

  • 179 English soldiers
  • 4,492 US soldiers
  • 186 - 210,000 Iraqi civilians

No civilian should ever be harmed in war, it is evil however it is inevitable.
How many Jewish people should be killed for Israel to be supported in defending themselves.
So the "the death toll is completely out of proportion" argument doesn't stand.

Yes, we can go back to the time before the bible and argue who has the right to the land. But this current war was started by Hamas and Hezbollah the following day.

However, please don't try to say they want mass extermination of Jewish people just because of the land.
People spitting on a naked woman's dead body when brought back into Gaza, footage filmed by Hamas.

Lets call this what it is pure racism, just like the Nazi's, who killed 6 million Jewish people.

OP posts:
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11
LumpBiscuit · 04/10/2024 15:28

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

VideoKilledRadioStar · 04/10/2024 15:18

Israel’s response was not “genocidal.” That’s just your prejudice speaking.

If genocide concerns you, I hope you are devoting a lot of time to helping the people of the Darfur region of Sudan?

LoseMeLikeAnArrow · 04/10/2024 15:10

@VideoKilledRadioStar I will never condone what Hamas did on October 7th

I will always condemn what Israel's genocidal response has been.

LoseMeLikeAnArrow · 04/10/2024 15:08

AmarenaCherry · 04/10/2024 14:47

What can be done about the fact that Palestinian leader vows to annihilate Israel?

www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hunted-yet-unrepentant-yahya-sinwar-remains-committed-israels-destruction-2024-10-04/

He should be in the Hague, with Netanyahu.

LetThereBeLove · 04/10/2024 15:08

candlewhickgreen · 04/10/2024 11:48

Why were Israel attacked?

Because the Arab states disagreed with the UN resolution in 1947 granting Jewish people a state of their own.

HelenHen · 04/10/2024 15:05

https://www.rte.ie/news/middle-east/2024/1004/1473561-israel-reax/

"The elders have repeatedly called on the US to restrain Israel's actions."former president of Ireland and and chair of The Elders Mary Robinson has said.

"The Elders condemn violence against civilians on all sides, but we see coordinated action to protect Israeli civilians from attack by Iran, and that stands in stark contrast to the lack of any protection for Palestinian civilians in Gaza and Lebanese civilians."

"The Elders absolutely agree with Israel's right to defend itself, right to live as a state in peace in the region. That's what we've always championed.

"But there is a disproportionate aggressive response by Israel at the moment and that needs to be reined in and could be reined in by stopping supplying the weapons."

I don't understand what it will take for the US and UK and other countries to stop funding and facilitating this conflict.

It's ridiculous that a year has gone by and the violence continues.

Israel acting without restraint in Middle East - Robinson

Israel is acting with impunity in the Middle East as it is not being restrained, former president and and chair of The Elders Mary Robinson.

https://www.rte.ie/news/middle-east/2024/1004/1473561-israel-reax

LetThereBeLove · 04/10/2024 15:04

onionbhajiplease · 04/10/2024 11:47

my post was deleted. In my very short post I mentioned that Hamas wanted the eradication of Israel and Jews and that Hamas are terrorists. All factual and absolutely no reason for the post to be deleted. Ill wait for this
one to be deleted now....

It is a fact and your post should not be deleted.

TheHateIsNotGood · 04/10/2024 15:03

Absolutely no idea why my post got deleted.

VideoKilledRadioStar · 04/10/2024 15:01

LoseMeLikeAnArrow · 04/10/2024 14:41

Following your logic, the borders can be withdrawn in Israel, to return some of the occupied (stolen) land to the Palestinians who inhabited it. Israel has been creating borders in its favour for decades. It needs to stop. It is an occupation, it is apartheid (Amnesty International) and academics and genocide experts see it as a genocide.

An ordinary person who sees mass slaughter for 12 months and the decimation of infrastructures plus the blocking of aid can call it a genocide if they wish. It pretty much fits the definition. The government continues to make its intent clear: to raze Gaze; to rid the land of Palestinians.

Palestine is a state, recognised by the majority of the UN members. It has its own flag, its own government, universities and schools (a governed education system) and a government health care system.

Believing all of the above, alongside condemning the October 7th attacks by Hamas as abhorrent whilst also understanding that as occupied people, they are desperate for the occupation to end - is not impossible or contradictory.

I would love, as a pacifist, to see Israel and Palestine thrive as coexistent neighbours, with all people of those lands having equal human rights. It seems impossible.

We must all educate ourselves from every angle to overcome our biases, our prejudices, our contempt of those we see as 'other' or less worthy or even less than human. If we stopped believing that our perceived enemy hates us and wants to kill us and started believing that they want us to be safe and happy and look out for us as neighbours, we might be able to make that shift to peace possible. It is a difficult journey to really examine your conscience and takes a huge amount of courage to question your beliefs.

Peace for all. Equal rights for all.

The young ravers dancing to psytrance at the Nova Festival were drawn from the pacifist, peacenik Left of Israeli society. No doubt many would have wholeheartedly agreed with your noble peace-loving sentiments, especially when the MDMA kicked in.

Hamas slaughtered them all the same.

AmarenaCherry · 04/10/2024 14:47

What can be done about the fact that Palestinian leader vows to annihilate Israel?

www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hunted-yet-unrepentant-yahya-sinwar-remains-committed-israels-destruction-2024-10-04/

We will dance again
LoseMeLikeAnArrow · 04/10/2024 14:41

Following your logic, the borders can be withdrawn in Israel, to return some of the occupied (stolen) land to the Palestinians who inhabited it. Israel has been creating borders in its favour for decades. It needs to stop. It is an occupation, it is apartheid (Amnesty International) and academics and genocide experts see it as a genocide.

An ordinary person who sees mass slaughter for 12 months and the decimation of infrastructures plus the blocking of aid can call it a genocide if they wish. It pretty much fits the definition. The government continues to make its intent clear: to raze Gaze; to rid the land of Palestinians.

Palestine is a state, recognised by the majority of the UN members. It has its own flag, its own government, universities and schools (a governed education system) and a government health care system.

Believing all of the above, alongside condemning the October 7th attacks by Hamas as abhorrent whilst also understanding that as occupied people, they are desperate for the occupation to end - is not impossible or contradictory.

I would love, as a pacifist, to see Israel and Palestine thrive as coexistent neighbours, with all people of those lands having equal human rights. It seems impossible.

We must all educate ourselves from every angle to overcome our biases, our prejudices, our contempt of those we see as 'other' or less worthy or even less than human. If we stopped believing that our perceived enemy hates us and wants to kill us and started believing that they want us to be safe and happy and look out for us as neighbours, we might be able to make that shift to peace possible. It is a difficult journey to really examine your conscience and takes a huge amount of courage to question your beliefs.

Peace for all. Equal rights for all.

kerstina · 04/10/2024 11:57

Jerusalem and the holy land is a special place . Also very fertile . To answer the question. Christian, Judaism and Islam consider this land sacred.

Humdingerydoo · 04/10/2024 11:54

Because the surrounding Arab nations didn't want self-determination for Jewish people in their (the Jewish people's) homeland, because they were anti-Semitic. They'd much rather have it all to themselves, which is what they were trying to achieve but failed miserably.

Comedycook · 04/10/2024 11:52

herecomesautumn · 04/10/2024 07:55

I look at countries around Europe, like Poland, Germany, Czechia and many more.

Displacement, redrawing boundaries, changing countries. And guess what, the world moves on. They're not seen as "refugees" for generations.

Even the ex Yugoslavia component countries have settled over the last 30 years.

What makes Palestinians so special?

Yes...borders are redrawn all the time. New countries are formed. Just look at northern Cyprus.

candlewhickgreen · 04/10/2024 11:48

Hunglikeapolevaulter · 04/10/2024 09:02

What I don’t understand is why the Israelis want to take over Palestine. In 1948 when Jewish people were given most of the land in Israel, displacing hundreds of thousands of its existing inhabitants, why did they want to take more of it?

Israel was attacked in 1948 and again in 1967, on both cases they gained territory. If they hadn't been attacked, their territory wouldn't have expanded. Hopefully you do understand now.

Why were Israel attacked?

onionbhajiplease · 04/10/2024 11:47

my post was deleted. In my very short post I mentioned that Hamas wanted the eradication of Israel and Jews and that Hamas are terrorists. All factual and absolutely no reason for the post to be deleted. Ill wait for this
one to be deleted now....

kerstina · 04/10/2024 11:44

ssd · 04/10/2024 09:18

No sane person can justify oct 7. It isnt possible to justify barbaric murder of innocent people.

But this idea that hamas can be eradicated isn't true. I think it is just going to produce more people who want to fight back.

Socrates said "you can kill a man but not an idea"

He wasn't wrong.

Absolutely true. We can expect this conflict to continue in one form and other for ? How many years . A new generation of terrorists have been cemented and now do we understand what can create the breeding ground for terrorism ? To see the killing of all the people around you ?

LumpBiscuit · 04/10/2024 11:37

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Tellysavelas · 04/10/2024 09:19

Hunglikeapolevaulter · 04/10/2024 09:02

What I don’t understand is why the Israelis want to take over Palestine. In 1948 when Jewish people were given most of the land in Israel, displacing hundreds of thousands of its existing inhabitants, why did they want to take more of it?

Israel was attacked in 1948 and again in 1967, on both cases they gained territory. If they hadn't been attacked, their territory wouldn't have expanded. Hopefully you do understand now.

Israel provokes Palestinians by letting settlers on their land, Palestinians respond. Israel cries it’s been attacked.

Ad nauseum.

ssd · 04/10/2024 09:18

No sane person can justify oct 7. It isnt possible to justify barbaric murder of innocent people.

But this idea that hamas can be eradicated isn't true. I think it is just going to produce more people who want to fight back.

Socrates said "you can kill a man but not an idea"

He wasn't wrong.

Kendodd · 04/10/2024 09:15

Hunglikeapolevaulter · 04/10/2024 09:02

What I don’t understand is why the Israelis want to take over Palestine. In 1948 when Jewish people were given most of the land in Israel, displacing hundreds of thousands of its existing inhabitants, why did they want to take more of it?

Israel was attacked in 1948 and again in 1967, on both cases they gained territory. If they hadn't been attacked, their territory wouldn't have expanded. Hopefully you do understand now.

I'm sorry, I don't understand.
What then happened to the land? Was it kept and settled by Israelis? Or kept as some sort of empty buffer zone? Why wasn't the land given back?

herecomesautumn · 04/10/2024 09:14

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

"Ugh" could you explain what you mean please

If hamas didn't massacre without a reason, are you saying that they were justified on 7th October?

Tellysavelas · 04/10/2024 09:13

herecomesautumn · 04/10/2024 09:04

@Tellysavelas More selective reading

The special rapporteur concluded there were grounds to believe a threshold had been met

The pp said the IJC had ruled a genocide. They, and you, are incorrect

I was responding to your post, which didn’t specify ICJ.

In any case, the ICJ ruled that Gaza Palestinians had a plausible right to be protected from genocide, which is as far as they can say without the USA withdrawing their funding.

INeedAnotherName · 04/10/2024 09:11

I honestly think anyone who doesn’t see that Hamas need to be eradicated and the war needs to continue until they put up the white flag of surrender,
Eradicated as in slaughtered? War as in annihilation? 43,000 innocent people who just happen to live or breathe in the vicinity? Wake up.