We will dance again

As for move on..... don't comment nonsense to and about me and not expect me to respond.

I have never once said that criticising the Israeli government is anti semetic. This is a old argument that many of us are very tired of.

Yes not my experience either. I grew up in Dublin close to the synagogue with Jewish next door neighbour's and many Jewish friends who never expressed it to me either.

I think people need to be careful not to demonise an entire nation of people when highlighting antisemitism, not sure it serves anyone well.

@Kendodd sadly I don’t see there ever being peace there, not in my lifetime anyway.

Sometimes I wonder if establishing the Jewish state of Israel back in the 40s was such a good idea. Regardless of ‘whose’ land it was and who was entitled to it, the priority for the Jewish people was peace after the atrocities of the holocaust. If it was me, I would have set up a Jewish state somewhere else, it wouldn’t have had the history etc but peace is way more important.

What's the alternative though?
Continued forever war?
Greater Israel with West Bank and Gaza Palestinians given citizenship rights? Or kept as prisoners?
Complete ethnic cleansing of Palestinians (again, forever war)?
Surrender and dissolution of the state of Israel and ethnic cleansing of Jews?
I was day dreaming today. In a different, better world, there would be no fence between Israel and an independent free state of Palestine, just a line on the road like between EU states. Jews would continue to live in the West Bank and commute to work in Israel. They'd just be living in Palestine and be cross border commuters. And at the Nova festival, hundreds of young Palestinians would cross the border to party with the young Israelis and other nationalities.
This is a really simple dream sadly made impossible by bloodthirsty hatred that runs so deep, on both sides.

I haven't actually commented much on the actual conflict....so stop trying to drag me into a discussion.

What I did do was pull you up on your comment which has been deleted where you mentioned the nazis. Comparing the current Israeli government to the Nazis is considered to be anti semetic. That was my issue.

Then this morning you said

It's not antisemitic to point out that a government/army is unlawfully treating/killing people and act against international law

No one said it was.

It was you comparison to the Nazis that was the issue.

Shall I say it again because you seem to either be deliberately obtuse or really quite dense.

The comparison to the Nazis.

I have no idea what is so difficult about this concept.

I can say truly, hand on heart, that I never thought of Israel as the bad guy growing up.

I think a lack of support for the Israeli government's actions (for humanitarian reasons) has been painted as antisemitism by many, and we have got a bad rep now.

Obviously there's a minority of lunatics, like those responsible for the stuff on Twitter, but the vast majority of Irish people don't think like them. October 7th was terrifying and I do understand why the Irraeli government responded as they did, but there are too many innocent people caught up in this to support what's happening. I don't have the answers, but this way can't be right.

And why do you keep on bringing it up, in a weird obsessive way, instead of addressing other issues (such as using history as an excuse for cmmiting current crimes) ? You need to move on.

I'm glad that you agree at least on one point. Tbh it's hard to find an irish person who does. With regards to anti semitism being ingrained in irish society, I can't agree with you that it isnt. I grew up there, as did you, and I always had a certain idea about israel being the bad guy. And that came along with anti semitic tropes that we are seeing come up again. I never really thought about it until circumstances lead me to know a lot of Jewish people. I'll be honest, I still thought that something like the holocaust couldnt happen again and that the vigilance and fear they had was misplaced. And then October 7 happened and I realised that they are right to be worried, even more so after what happened afterwards and is still happening.

It's twitter what do you expect. I'm personally not on it so can't read the comments, wouldn't want to, but I'm sure they're not all Irish commenters. I will repeat it is not accurate to suggest the views of this event are mainstream. The majority of Irish have zero tolerance for nationalist terrorist movements

You are right. That is absolutely disgusting and I think most Irish people would agree (I am Irish).

Irish people in general don't agree with the Israeli government's actions in Gaza because of the humanitarian crisis there, but that does not mean we are unsympathetic to Jewish people or that we don't appreciate the horror of Oct 7th. We do. I disagree that antisemitism is ingrained in Irish society. I don't think that's true.

I think what's linked above is abhorrent. I am hugely embarrassed by it too.

The comments under the post in Twitter are almost as upsetting and clearly not minority views

A quick Google of the organisers of this will tell you all you need to know about them. They are clearly a very dodgy evil outfit - anti imperial action Ireland. All the images are people in balaclavas so obviously nationalist terrorist supporters. I don't think it's fair to suggest this is mainstream views and we are yet to see if the event is even allowed to take place. Tbh I think the post should be taken down because you are inadvertently advertising it.

A very good and balanced article from today’s Times, concluding:

”Both sides are renewed in their determination for total victory.”

archive.ph/2024.10.04-220118/www.thetimes.com/world/middle-east/article/october-7-israel-gaza-conflict-xtrr37qg8

Well the president now is a man, neither of the Marys (yes that looks wrong imo but apparently thats how you write mary in plural) who preceded him would have embarrassed themselves by meddling in political affairs like that.

Anyway, it's a bit late but Shana tova. Please know that more people than you think are in support of Jewish people.

The starting point for Israelis was support for a 2 state solution going back many years. But whatever Israel offered (an example of which is referenced by @VideoKilledRadioStar above), it was rejected. Is it really any surprise that Israelis have lost hope for a 2 state solution?

Once again....this is hard work...FFS

IT WAS THE COMPARISON TO THE NAZIS that was the issue.

Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

It's not antisemitic to point out that a government/army is unlawfully treating/killing people and act against international law. Antisemitims should not be an excuse to shut down discussions around war crimes (as identified by UN Human Rights Council).

It should be traced and dealt with

Sorry- I’ve just seen your edit. Thank you

Hopefully you understand that it’s more than just a “controversial date” as it implicitly implies support for what happened in that date rather than condemnation.
Im hoping you can also see that it uses anti semitic imagery?

Same here. Anyone who attends these marches should be ashamed. 1200 innocent Jewish people died and hundreds taken hostage and people want to celebrate these atrocities? If that isn't blatant antisemitism I don't know what is.

I suppose I would fall under being pro-Palestine, however the organisers would be the best people to ask. I have not heard of the groups on that poster and am not a member/supporter of them. MNers on here won't be able to explain their actions simply by being pro-Palestine unless they are a member of, or support, these groups.
It is a controversial choice of date, especially with the words used on the poster.

Edit: Just been able to open the whole image (could only see part before clicking), it is very bad wording and I think the reason is rather clear regardless of what organisers may say - I hope they don't get a big turnout for this.

Thank you for your support. It means a lot to Jewish people to know that some Irish people are enlightened and do not support antisemitism. Your president should be ashamed of herself.

Im pro Palestine, but I would not defend the date neither would I support any marches held on the 7th. Neither do I know any people who support Palestine and would go.

I also find it unnecessarily incendiary and not in any good interest of the cause- if the cause is indeed the good of Palestinian people, because outcome seemingly is (like Hamas' actions) to give Palestine a bad name.