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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be shocked deferring by a year has become this common?

432 replies

Killiam · 01/10/2024 14:32

My DS is 4, his birthday is august 28th, he started school this year.
Today I went to a session at his school where parents were invited in to see what they have been doing etc.
After I was talking to some parents and they noted more than once how tiny he is, I said ah well he has just turned 4 so makes sense. This is when I learned of his class of 24 kids, 4 of them should have started the year before 1 June birthday, 2 July and 1 August. The next closest in age to my son is a June baby so no other July or August babies born his year at all!
DS seems to be doing well but when I asked the other summer parents why they decided to defer they basically all said they just felt their kids needed more time, nothing the separates them from DS.
DS does cry most days going in and couldn't write his name or anything before starting.
The school is in central London and is very diverse but lots of Eastern European and Asian parents and Ive learn that in most of those countries 6 or even 7 is a more common. starting age so I wonder if that plays a role?

AIBU to be shocked it is so common to defer now? Starting to wonder if I made the right choice!

OP posts:
Dragonfly909 · 02/10/2024 01:12

My end of July born 4 year old has just started school. She is not usually one to cope well with things, but she has settled really well. I think it's down to her nursery preparing her and the school is quite small, as is her class so the transition is easier. So I think those things factor in. By chance, she is one of several children born in July/Aug in her year so that will help as she's not the only one.

I did briefly consider deferring but she was obviously bored of nursery and ready for change.

Anisty · 02/10/2024 00:50

I feel fortunate that all mine went to school in Scotland, where the start age is older. Kids here do not need to start primary school unless they are 5yrs old on the school new year start date (mid August)

So, my youngest DD was 2 weeks off her SIXTH birthday when she started.

And, all my others have been nearer 6 than 5.

Thus, they have been fully ready, already reading and with all the foundation skills in place.

The very youngest a child can start school here is 4yrs and 8 months if they have a January birthday. Parents can hold off til they are 5yrs 8 or start at 4;8.

I have heard many parents regret sending kids too young. But never one regret holding back.

YourLastNerve · 02/10/2024 00:34

it’s not just going into school that needs to be considered but also them leaving school. This is often not considered and children can be going to uni at 17 which can be hard.

Is this a quirk of the scottish system? In England an august born child would turn 18 at the end of 6th form and would not be going to uni aged 17.

play is not as encouraged as a learning opportunity.

For me, its not that play is not a learning opportunity. Of course it is. But its what you learn. You can learn social skills, problem solving, creativity. But you don't get anywhere near the same academic learning from play that you get from formal education. Not all play is equivalent either in the potential for learning. Studies will tend to focus on "perfect" environments where students are guided to ensure they challenge themselves enough, explore a range of different resources and develop skills further. In reality, if a child plays repetitively riding wheeled toys around a garden and rarely chooses to explore other materials, no, they will not pick up any pre literacy or pre numeracy learning. There will be a point where there's little novelty or value in the physical skills they are practising doing this.

Schools & the education system were really set up to focus on academic outcomes. The teaching of skills like reading, writing and maths, and the acquisition of detailed knowledge in areas like science, history and geography.

The assumption being that characteristics like resilience, decision making, negotiation, social interaction, emotional regulation, are for parents to have responsibility for and are less within the scope of school and that there's plenty of time outside school for play.

Parents overscheduling childrens lives is as much of an issue as the school starting age. There's time & learning capacity for school AND play.

EgonFace · 01/10/2024 22:59

Until this thread, I genuinely had no idea that this issue was so contentious. My kids are now at university. Most families I know did not defer, us included. But I understand why some parents do and it’s a personal decision. It is a revelation to me that some people get so upset about it.

Kaleidoscope21 · 01/10/2024 22:57

I meant to quote @YourLastNerve but something seems to have gone amiss on posting but just wanted to reply to the comment in terms of jadedness around schooling and parental attitudes.

@goodkidsmaadhouse I also had a similar experience to you, and the emotional and social aspects were strong motivators for me in delaying my daughter

Kaleidoscope21 · 01/10/2024 22:54

That's the exact opposite of my experience, I'm an august born that excelled academically and thrived in that environment. I went to grammar school for my senior years passing the 11+ but I have an august 31st born (born a little earlier than her due date) and we chose to delay her not because I think school is an awful thing to not enjoy but because she's wasn't emotionally ready and when she gets to school I want to get the most out of her experience. She's delayed under a reception start as per agreement with catchment schools and our local council so wont miss a year of education.

I find this topic fascinating as it does seem to get people's backs up generally and I don't understand it surely we all just want the best outcome for our individual children. I also think there is a big push in the UK to rush children through childhood and play is not as encouraged as a learning opportunity. I also think I want my child to be as emotionally ready as possible to make life decisions as they get older, the fact that GCSEs begin in year 9 in some places means you're looking at options at just turned 13 which to me feels very young.

goodkidsmaadhouse · 01/10/2024 22:52

YourLastNerve · 01/10/2024 19:21

I think people's view on this is very jaded by their own experience.

Ive noticed that people who weren't terribly academically inclined, who struggled more at school (regardless of age), are far more likely to be negatively generally about school, and of the view it is an Unpleasant Thing to be delayed as long as possible.

More academically inclined people don't understand this. They remember being excited to start, enjoying learning, loving reading and writing and maths (DH and i were like this). We liked school. We loved reading. My kids at age 4 would choose activities involving maths and writing, over a dress up box. They like it. To people like this, school, and academic learning, reading and writing and maths, are great! Why would you want to put them off?

It’s not just about liking school, though. I LOVED school. I was the youngest in my year by over 2 months. I did brilliantly academically, all the way through. But in secondary school, I had friends who were over a year older than me and guess what… when they started smoking/drinking/having sex, I started too. And I was young and not ready.

I’m in Scotland and we’ve deferred both our autumn/winter borns. One of our children started school at almost 6. All of our children went into school able to read and enjoying maths and writing. But we don’t want them to be 10 rather than 11 when their peers started getting mobile phones, or 14 rather than 15 when their peers start having sex. There are reasons to want your child to be old in the year that are nothing to do with academics. And deferring them doesn’t need to put them off anything.

EgonFace · 01/10/2024 22:44

ISpyNoPlumPie · 01/10/2024 19:05

Thank you @Hecatoncheires. I have responded to SunriseMonsters no less than three or four times I believe. I pointed out the this is an equity issue (an issue of fairness) because even though on paper it seems that everyone has a fair and even choice to defer their child, the fact of the matter is that only certain groups of people do this, and those people are already more privileged (more wealthy, higher educational levels, less likely to be a member of a minority ethnic group). I made the point that keeping children in their age appropriate academic year (outside of exceptional reasons) would be more of a leveller than allowing more privileged parents to create more privileged circumstances for themselves.

SunriseMonster disagreed with that point. They said it was not a benefit that is only available to wealthy people (although an analysis helpfully shared by a PP demonstrates that this is not true). SunriseMonster did not want to engage with these arguments.

SunriseMonster, like yourself, also did not agree that sometimes people make decisions based on the greater good rather than on the basis of their personal capacity to benefit. I decided not to defer my August born child's school start. I did that in the full knowledge or what I could and couldn't do, and with the ability to make the decision without financial constraints - a position of privilege. There were no exceptional circumstances in my child's case, and I didn't think it was right - morally, so I didn't do it. I could also afford to privately educate my children, Again, I chose not to because I don't think it is right or fair. So yes, people do make moral decisions that they believe will not cause undue harm but would directly benefit themselves or their loved ones, but because we know that we don't exist outside of other people. Society only works to the extent that it works for the most vulnerable and deprived - that is, if you believe in society. Fundamentally, SunriseMonsters and I have different belief systems AND we enact those belief systems in different ways.

Subsequently, SunriseMonsters asked me if I would act abusively towards my children. If I would shout at them, or deprive them of love and affection because some children are deprived of love and affection. SunriseMonsters asked me if I would do harmful things on purpose to my children to level the playing field. They said not doing so gives them an unfair advantage. I still don't understand the logical steps between I don't want to give my children an unfair advantage and some children are abused so I should abuse my children and SunriseMonster could not explain this. They just repeated the same point and said they had applied my "exact stated logic to other parenting scenarios". This is when I realised I was wasting my time. How can one have a reasoned argument with someone who says you should abuse your children to level the playing field. But I didn't mention anything about levelling the playing field or dragging people down (that was SunriseMonster), I was making a point about equity, fairness, and how I act in accordance with my values. SunriseMonster clearly feels badly about their choices or they would not be quite so belligerent and rude themselves. Conversely, I feel good about my choice.

So you say I have deflected and that I have been rather rude. One could accuse SunriseMonster of the same. Perhaps you could mete out your criticism more fairly. Or perhaps you prefer, as many do, to reserve it for people you don't agree with. And perhaps you'll now agree with me that this WAS a waste of 10 minutes of my life!!

I really do not think sunrisemonster feels badly about their choices. You are just making a passive aggressive dig by saying that. You are being patronising and pedantic. Does this mean you are actually not happy with your choices? I think you are protesting too much? Perhaps you have regrets about not deferring?

Nohugspleaseandthankyou · 01/10/2024 22:43

Could be cultural. Im not from the UK and where I'm from kids start between 5 and 6. Personally I think kids are often too young when starting here so I would choose to defer if my son had been born at another time of the year.

EgonFace · 01/10/2024 22:40

SunriseMonsters · 01/10/2024 18:00

Thank you. I've given up with engaging with that poster because they are rude and inflammatory and yet, as you say, refuse to actually answer anything you say anyway, just send personal comments. I think maybe they didn't understand the point about logic so trued to deflect it with personal insults instead. Horrible to have people behaving like that - telling others they are causing inequality by trying to do the best for their children - so I appreciate you calling it out. Ironically, I'm a lone parent, and deferred my child. I'm hardly the super rich with a private yacht!

The argument from that poster is one of the strangest I have read on Mumsnet. And that is saying something. I did not defer my summer child, but if somebody thinks that their summer child needs deferring, of course they should do that. Meeting the needs of your own child is basic parenting.

Wishingplenty · 01/10/2024 22:02

BarbaraHoward · 01/10/2024 16:54

Aside from your deliberately inflammatory phrasing, you have the causation wrong here. If our DC2 had been born five days early (and we hadn't deferred, which we would've in truth), our nursery would've been £12k down.

I was not trying to be offensive merely factual. Tell me did you ask to defer your child or did your nursery advise it? Because the fact remains that private nurseries would rather their quota was reached with their younger children because it is more profitable for them. Council nurseries are almost always linked to a primary school so they will certainly always discuss the option of deferring and tend to intiate the conversation. I have friends that were unaware that they could defer their child because they were attending a private nursery that failed to discuss this option with them. But they did defer because I told them about it just before the deadline. In Scotland it is actually a legal requirement that all nurseries discuss deferring with parents if the child falls into the eligible months of mid August to February, however this is not being done, because there is a big incentive for private nurseries to send children to school, because the demand is so high for places.

Chocolatelover13 · 01/10/2024 21:26

We’re in Scotland and we deferred our son. When speaking to the teachers they confirmed that it’s not just going into school that needs to be considered but also them leaving school. This is often not considered and children can be going to uni at 17 which can be hard. They also advised that they had yet to find a parent who regretted deferring but had seen a few who regretted not deferring.

DinosaurMunch · 01/10/2024 21:15

I considered deferring mine who was August born and also very shy. Decided against as not a middle class area so no one else would be doing this and I thought there would probably be unhelpful comments made to her.

She did fine at school both academically and socially so it was ok.in.the end.

There are a couple of parents of early September children who complain that their child should have been in the year above but missed the cut off..so the prevailing attitude seems to be the opposite!

Mandylovescandy · 01/10/2024 21:05

We're in Scotland too and July born DC are mid aged in their year but would have been youngest in English system. I wouldn't have deferred them if it meant straight into Y1 and no reception but otherwise one of them I definitely would whereas other would have been ready then. Depends on child. If it helps my DC cried and screamed going in for the first term of school but now loves it so much

Completelyjo · 01/10/2024 20:53

AmandaPleaseDotCom · 01/10/2024 20:14

Following as my DD will be 4 next August and I've been told by the school we would like her to attend that if we want to defer her we still need to apply this coming January, but submit a deferral request alongside the application.

Can anybody whose done this advise how it works with the current nursery place? My daughters nursery are full until September 2026 and I assume they will have assumed she will be leaving September 2025 although we haven't had the conversation. Would she be able to keep her place or would they kick her out? I'd hate to defer her and find she has nowhere to go for a year!

Yes you have to apply at her normal intake and apply for a deferred place, so your application is now, closing in January.

In terms of nursery, for us it was the same, we just let them know that she would be doing another year but it was a private nursery not a preschool. You probably need to run it by the preschool and establish if they will keep her before applying for a deferred school place.

LoveWine123 · 01/10/2024 20:41

The school/admissions authority also have to prove that skipping a year of education is in the best interest of the child before they are allowed to say “no”. It’s not just to consider but it is to actually prove that they are acting in the best interest of the child. The burden of proof is not on the parents. It is on the admissions authority.

LoveWine123 · 01/10/2024 20:35

HideTheCroissants · 01/10/2024 17:33

LEA guidelines….

You should actually look up the government guidelines for summer born children which override local authority guidelines. As I mentioned there is a process to ensure children are not made to skip a year of education for no reason.

Drivingoverlemons · 01/10/2024 20:26

Completelyjo · 01/10/2024 19:46

But the option is open to everyone and given the nursery finding is the same as primary school it’s not a cost thing, it’s an educational buy in problem. If anymore more parents need to be made more aware of the attainment differences for young summer borns and the parents right to change their school year.
Ultimately just not enough parents know and this skews more highly towards lower socioeconomic families.
This isn’t a reason to not have this available because summer do on the whole suffer more through their academic career compared to those who are older starting reception.

Ultimately just not enough parents know and this skews more highly towards lower socioeconomic families.

This, 100%. All these snide comments about middle class parents are predictable but unfair.

Drivingoverlemons · 01/10/2024 20:22

YourLastNerve · 01/10/2024 19:21

I think people's view on this is very jaded by their own experience.

Ive noticed that people who weren't terribly academically inclined, who struggled more at school (regardless of age), are far more likely to be negatively generally about school, and of the view it is an Unpleasant Thing to be delayed as long as possible.

More academically inclined people don't understand this. They remember being excited to start, enjoying learning, loving reading and writing and maths (DH and i were like this). We liked school. We loved reading. My kids at age 4 would choose activities involving maths and writing, over a dress up box. They like it. To people like this, school, and academic learning, reading and writing and maths, are great! Why would you want to put them off?

Well that theory wasn’t true at all for me. I loved school and couldn’t wait to start. Woke up on my fourth birthday thinking I was going to school and was really disappointed to learn that I had to wait another half a year. But my DS is a different person and at almost four I just couldn’t imagine him starting school.

AmandaPleaseDotCom · 01/10/2024 20:14

Following as my DD will be 4 next August and I've been told by the school we would like her to attend that if we want to defer her we still need to apply this coming January, but submit a deferral request alongside the application.

Can anybody whose done this advise how it works with the current nursery place? My daughters nursery are full until September 2026 and I assume they will have assumed she will be leaving September 2025 although we haven't had the conversation. Would she be able to keep her place or would they kick her out? I'd hate to defer her and find she has nowhere to go for a year!

Zanatdy · 01/10/2024 20:11

I’ve got an August baby, he smashed his GCSE and A level results, applied to Oxbridge etc. It seems crazy to me to defer, but i guess its quite common.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 01/10/2024 20:09

LaerealSilverhand · 01/10/2024 17:43

@NeverDropYourMooncup a judicial review decides whether a decision has been made in accordance to the applicable regulatory framework. The question would be whether a local authority or school that rejects out of cohort applications as a matter of routine is acting in accordance to the DoE guidance which states "Authorities should consider whether there are good educational reasons for a child to join their normal age group, otherwise the child should remain with their adopted year group." I would argue that if they are doing this as a matter of routine, they are not in fact doing so for good educational reasons and are therefore not in line with the applicable government guidance.

The Law states that parents have a right to request, schools have the obligation to consider, but that parents do not have the right to have this happen.

Aix · 01/10/2024 19:59

We have deferred a year for our eldest, due to autism and a speech delay. Nursery and the professionals involved advised that starting him this year would have been setting him up to fail, especially as class numbers are now so high, he wouldn't have the support he receives in nursery.
I've spoken to a few other parents recently who have said that, according to their kids, no-one wants to be amongst the youngest in the year, whereas apparently being the oldest isn't such an issue.

doodleschnoodle · 01/10/2024 19:49

Yes, it's really nuanced because it's not just about physical feasibility (so funding and availability of childcare) but much more deeply ingrained attitudes and beliefs about education and school that have perpetuated for generations in some families that have been locked in a cycle of poverty. So it's difficult because it's absolutely not as simple as 'poor people can't afford to defer'; it's that many people in deprived areas haven't had the same chances themselves to be able to weigh up the pros and cons or prioritise education and it's just not a consideration for them.

user86345625434 · 01/10/2024 19:48

Katiesaidthat · 01/10/2024 15:23

He wasn´t behind, he was bang on target. He is the age he is...

yes - but if he'd been born in January he wouldn't have been the last to be old enough to go to an 18 film, get his driving licence, buy booze, not need a parents signature. All of which makes a feeling of having to be catching up constantly…
He’s fine. But would i have deferred for a year if it’d been an option? Absolutely yes. At the time, he’d have had to go into yr1 not reception which seemed a worse option.