Northern Ireland - how do you perceive it?

I’ve certainly had dog’s abuse in such areas in the past

And?

My uncle, as a young boy, was trapped under an overturned supermarket trolley and PISSED on by boys for being a "Prod' ....before all the protestants moved out of the main residential areas of Derry/Londonderry, for their own safety.

He said he went home and asked his parents what a Prod was and why it was so bad.

As I outlined early on in this thread, I've been called a Prod and a Hun in Derry more times than I can remember, simply for existing and having a "protestant" name, while trying to be being friendly & sociable to everyone.

As Jane Doe said upthread, it's apparently doesn't qualify as sectarianism, when it's against protestants.

It's not if it's just union jacks.

I understand it if it's paramilitary flags.

But while we're on the subject...how do you think I feel, as a protestant, when I (in my own country) go through areas bedecked with tricolours and republican paramilitary flags???

most people from the south would interpret the union jack as meaning they aren't particularly welcome in that area. Especially when flown alongside paramilitary or paratrooper flags. Justifiably.

Yes, that's understandable.

But it's important to remember that people vary hugely within communicaties in NI, just like they do everywhere.

There are unionists who are not knuckle daggers.

If people within a community would be aggressive or unpleasant towards visitors from Ireland or perpetrate criminal acts on people visiting from Ireland, for example,; then they are the worst type of stupid, ignorant, rough, aggressive, criminal people within a society.... And they'd be like that in any society. No matter what their Identity was.

No-one decent, unionist or not, would ever be nasty to someone from Ireland, just cause they're from Ireland.

The other important thing to remember is that extreme nationalist or unionist areas are only one small part of the country. There are the extreme areas. There are rough areas in England, there are areas dominated by particular ethnicities and cultures. Are people from other counties supposed to judge the entire country on them? Are they supposed to complain about them online (that would actually probably attract accusations of racism)?

That’s a bit disingenuous, @HazelPlayer. Can’t you imagine any reason why an Irish person with an accent from the opposite end of the island might have legitimate reason to feel intimidated by an area making its sectarian affiliation very plain? I’ve certainly had dog’s abuse in such areas in the past. But the last time I was in NI was a couple of days before the Omagh bomb.

@HazelPlayer most people from the south would interpret the union jack as meaning they aren't particularly welcome in that area. Especially when flown alongside paramilitary or paratrooper flags. Justifiably.

Moving to NI has also changed my feelings around the tricolour. Irish me and my Irish named daughter may be welcomed and safe where it's flown but my friends may not be and so while they don't make me feel nervous I don't feel at ease either. My home town in Dublin flies a large tricolour at the end of the pier and while I used to barely notice it and feel vaguely positive towards it, these days I don't like to see it at all, even though I know an official tricolour in Dublin is a very different thing to one on a lamppost in Belfast.

The flags aren't just flown to celebrate an identity, they're flown to intimidate others and it's disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

I had a particularly nasty experience during the flags protests that only cemented my feelings.

The fledgling Irish government did not want a partition. It happened because the British government insisted on it.

No, it happened because the majority of people in those counties (gerry mandering is a separate thread, I don't know how much difference it would have made) did not want to become citizens of the new Irish state, and wanted to stay British citizens.
To the extent of being prepared to enter armed conflict over it.

That is why anyone would take issue with that poster coming on this thread and shouting about "the Brits" taking the 6 counties from us".

It's nonsense.

The "Brits" would probably have been quite happy to wash their hands of the island entirely.
That became a million times more the case when the Troubles began and it became a colossal financial drain and their soldiers were being killed on a daily basis.

But I'm accused to taking part in a bun fight, just be pointing out the fallacies of that posters very extreme (and totally inaccurate).opinions.

The most common misconception I encounter from people from everywhere - England, the US, Spain ... Is that NI was taken/kept by the "British" and should be "freed".

The total & utter ignorance about, and dismissal of, the millions of people whose ancestors settled here centuries ago (often before the US was colonised, before Australia was colonised etc) and who did not want ... and still do not want to be citizens of the Irish state, and desperately want to continue to be British citizens ... Is beyond frustrating.

As an Irish person I have also been shocked by the flags in NI. I knew they existed but I think seeing them in reality and seeing the extent of them felt very intimidating

Presuming you don't feel intimidated by your own country's flag (which makes up quite a proportion of the flags put up in NI!), I presume you mean the Union Jacks or Ulster flags?.

What exactly intimidates you about seeing the flag of the actual country you're visiting?

It's part of the UK.

People in the areas it's up in, put it up because they feel threatened with not being part of the UK and desperately want to stay in the UK.

Or do you mean the other random flags, like Orange Order/Palestine/Israel etc?

(Random fact; the Irish Tricolour represents the Green of Ireland, the Orange of Orangeism and white for peace. It was intended to be a representative, uniting flag. Which is pretty sad in retrospect).

I’ve been to Belfast many times & always felt welcome and enjoyed my time in the city. My husband worked in Belfast for a while so my son & I would go with him. My son was around 11-15 at the time and we had a fab time doing all the tourist stuff by ourselves. We would often be asked where we were from but people were very friendly.

Most of my great grandparents & grandparents were from NI or ROI so I enjoy the history and the link between the stories they told me growing up and the places I visited. I perceive it as a complex but beautiful country.

fantastic pubs also 👌

Visited two years ago and can't wait to go back. The natives were the friendliest most welcoming people I've ever met. Made Glasgow look positively hostile in comparison! I thought it was absolutely lovely

'Sorry for your troubles' means 'sorry for your bereavement' though. It's usually said as a condolence at funerals, so there is a weightier element to the word 'troubles' as used in Ireland.

That said, WW2 was referred to as 'The Emergency ', which makes it sound rather different to the reality of it too.

The use of the term 'troubles' really pisses me off. It was a civil war.

Anyone can go to a Catholic school. But certainly in Belfast very few Protestants actually do. It is actually a bone of contention of mine in relation to grammar places. Catholics children happily go to any of the grammars and the non catholic grammars make a big fuss about welcoming everyone but this is not reciprocated.

I only know how it works in ROI, not NI.
In ROI the child or family's religion is no longer allowed as a criterion for entry to a Catholic school.
(That's because the majority of schools are still Catholic, at primary level anyway - which is up to age 12 or 13 here.)

If schools aren't already established as integrated, they have to apply for integrated status.
On the surface of it, looking at admissions criteria schools seem to be able to set their own percentages for the C/P/other split. For some, it's 35/35/30, others are 45/45/10.

Does that not stem from their funding source and governing body though? Grant-maintained vs Controlled.
The Catholic schools do state that they subscribe to a Catholic ethos and practise Catholic instruction. In application forms I'm fairly certain parents have to confirm that the child and family are Catholic. I don't think they have to prove it though.
I don't know how it works when it comes to admission of non-Catholic students, for I'm certain there are non-Catholics in the various very in-demand Catholic grammar schools. Do they have some written policy which allows them to not admit non-Catholics and avoid claims of discrimination?

We are seriously lacking any type of public transport outside the cities

My nearest town is Ballymoney, takes over an hour on the train to Belfast - 35/40 mins in the car. I can get to work by train - 30 mins , but have to come home by bus and two changes taking 1hr 30 and still need to drive out to home

Being a single track the train you are wanting - be it to Derry/Londonderry or Belfast, has to sit at the station waiting on the one coming the opposite direction to pull in to clear the line

But I can attest that the Coleraine to Derry/Londonderry train journey really is one of the most beautiful in the world.

I work at the Port and talk to visitors from all over the world daily and they all remark on the beauty and the friendliness. Im often asked how it has been being English and living here and Im honest and say it has had its challenges, that a good sense of humour really helps and not to be too offended with the blanket hatred of English . I was chatting just yesterday about the pit falls of trying to watch a match - Rugby or Football in the pub , and me saying I support all teams - N.Ireland, Ireland and England, whereas the peeps of N.Ireland would support a team of Nazi paedos over England any day ( this was to NI people who totally agreed ) But have I ever felt unsafe? No.. Myself personally have always felt welcomed but then I live rural in a very mixed community - although all the villages do have two schools and the Catholic kids do go to such and such secondary/grammer and the prods go to others

My granddaughter is going through integrated primary schooling , her parents are mixed, but secondary school is looming and choices will have to be made because the secondary mixed is crap in their area

If you have the money to not live in the areas that are flag flying then tbh it passes you by. You dont see it, you arent seeing the undercurrents which are undeniably there

Where I live all the catholic schools state in their website they are a catholic school.

Schools do that lots of places though, don't they? I know they do in ROI anyway.

, that’s a very outdated and false idea. Methody for example is the most religiously mixed in the country yet as a school it is not formally integrated - things just happen organically.

Methodist college is one school in one town. Where I live all the catholic schools state in their website they are a catholic school.

DH is from NI. Left at 18 and never returned. He never really discusses the history with the kids so I'm the one mentioning it to them. They were fascinated watching Derry girls when they all got off the bus due to the bomb warning. I tried to get DS to consider QUB but DH was against it as he's not convinced it's changed (I believe otherwise).
Anyway I enjoy it when I go but then I never lived through the troubles there.
Couple of observations -
Beaches are lovely
So are the pubs
What is it with the vertical blinds in the windows - can always tell an NI house on TV
Might just be my in laws but definitely a tendency to make sure you have the right clothes labes/cars/house decor.

I went in 86 on day trip from the Republic and there were lots of soldiers - I was very scared. I went again a few years ago and it was lovely to drive over with no border. Beautiful countryside in the north east too but I was really shocked at the lack of train routes. Apparently there were quite a few train lines in NI years ago - pre Troubles, but for some reason they were built over.
Hopefully that will change again.

Thank you I thought it was a UK team and the GB is just “branding”.
I wasn’t aware of the choice thing but it makes sense.

People from NI can opt to compete for either the UK or Ireland, usually the choice is made based on funding and opportunity rather than identity.

Unfortunately the UK label their Olympic team Team GB rather than Team UK, but it is the UK team not just the team for Great Britain.

It’s not helped when we do international sport sometimes as separate nations. Sometimes as GB - and I think but I may be wrong Northern Ireland athletes compete with Team GB hence more confusion.

I know it can be confusing but NI is part of the UK (United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to give the full name).
Four countries - three (England, Scotland and Wales make up Great Britain) then Northern Ireland is the fourth.

This pp you are quoting was referring to NI not being a separate country to the UK (so same education, currency etc). Although that was later debated further down the thread referencing that Wales, Scotland and England are separate countries whilst also being park of the UK.