To think that workplaces should be less accommodating of personal lives?

I manage quite a big team of people and I give them total flexibility as long as they do their work and don't decline work meetings during reasonable hours (I call reasonable 10-3) without a good reason, like a hospital appointment. Some work 10-6, some 8-4, some pick up their kids at 3pm then do another hour in the evening when their partner is home; they come to the office 1-3 times a week, but I let them choose when so it suits their life, because why on earth not? I choose my office days based on what nights of the week I'm going out on, and how heavily it is raining (obviously according to what I have going on at work too).

We have very little sick leave in my team, and targets are met - and staff turnover has decreased. I work in public sector so I can't exactly give people a payrise, so this is a way to make their work/life balance better and their overall wellbeing higher. Work should not be a punishment.

unfortunately, I’ve witnessed very similar. team members totally taking the mickey and then bring pissed off when the favours and perks dry up. Sadly, everyone misses out.

Saying that, my DH has to be VERY ill to take time off. The only time he's been off work (with his current company) was my SAH and when he was hospitalised with Flu.

In the words of Inspector John Rebus...FYTP.

Ridiculous to not show any compassion to employees and their home lives which can impact their working lives. DH has been off sick with stress for long periods due to lack of empathy from management. He just couldn't carry on. Occupational health now involved and things are improving. Reasonable adjustments are being made.

If it’s reciprocal then great, employer supports their employee with flexibility and vice versa. Sadly in all my years and years of management it tends to be expected that employer will be flexible and it doesn’t always come back the other way. For example one employee (not my dept) wanted to change days to do a hobby course which my company facilitated even though it was tricky to organise. When that employee was asked to help out to cover unexpected bereavement leave they refused (without reason). When they were pulled up on it they threw a very unprofessional strop and then left to find another (much worse pay/conditions) job. I always wondered what their problem was. Once you’ve pissed someone off they are not going to do you any favours back. Reciprocity is pretty much the glue that holds human society together, it surprises me how many people don’t get that.

I agree with this in part as long as people deliver.

What I don't agree with is when someone is clearly running businesses on work time, work know about it and do nothing.

When my DS had sepsis and pneumonia as a baby, which developed into an empyema (which required surgery 2 weeks before christmas) my husbands boss was shouting down the phone at him about his Christmas bookings. He didn't care that my DS (who was 1 at the time) was dying at that one point and was in resus. 4 days later my DH returned to work once DS woke up from surgery and the Christmas bookings were fine. It soured the relationship and he left not long after.
The company my DH is with now is much better. When I had an aneurysm 2 years ago, they let him have as much time as he required (he worked from home as much as he could). As soon as I was stable, he returned to his role. The company valued his position and the fact he had a family.

This is the argument people use when they say they shouldn't have to offer maternity leave or buy adapted equipment for disabled employees.

It is absolutely the employer's problem to treat people fairly and decently, we have legislation to ensure employers don't hide behind the "it's not my problem" excuse.

It is also in the interests of the whole country not to lose the input of huge swathes of our population to the workplace.

For small companies it can be difficult as there just isn't the cash flow to support people, to give them the total flexability they want and still get the work done.
Maternity leave has been a big issue for us, when out of a workforce of 10, three got pregnant at the same time. It was very hard to cover their payment and employ someone to cover their work at the same time. Plus having to cover other personal issues within the rest of the team.
I used to work in a bank and they were able to cover the full salary for someone having treatment for cancer for a year, as much I would love to be able to do that with my current company, I just couldn't afford it.

Fair point. But we shouldn’t let them take the piss, or take it out on non-piss takers because they do.

I think the majority of people will encounter something in life that is impossible to keep separate from work. If employers do not recognise this they will struggle to keep decent employees.

This.

What's to be proud of?

Slaving all your life away putting money in the rich man's pocket? Working your butt off to find the social contract broken - no matter how hard you work the poor will never be lifted out of poverty ?

When I was facing tough situations at work vs home and family life i comforted myself with the thought that I can easily get another job. Another family -- slightly harder.
(A particular issue with some managers whose mantra was 'work always comes first.' Must be why your wife left with your DC and you have no life, mate...)

Forgot to say that there should be balance in the workplace. Employers and employees should value and respect each other.

Pisstakers need jobs too.

Most of the adult population is employed, and we need most to be employed.

If no one employed people that are twits, or entitled, or pisstakers, we will have to support those people through taxes.

My ex used to use flexi time for special xp offer gaming days. His colleague, a subcontractor used to join him. He took the piss as often as possible then was angry to be put on a disciplinary.

I once asked to go 5 minutes early if all my clients had been seen and all my admin done. I was told no. No flexibility when my husband left and left me with two young children.

WFH since covid seems to mean doing as little as possible for many people.

There seems to be a lack of pride in the world. The way people dress at work and in public, their attitude, behaviour in public/society as a whole has gone downhill.

Forty years ago while trying to get everything completed while working his notice, my dad had a heart attack. His boss, told Personnel that he had persuaded my dad to stay and to return all the paperwork.
A month later, my dad returned to work with nothing said and stayed for several more years.
I hope Mr Webb is enjoying a well-appointed cloud in Paradise, the final solution worked out very profitably for the company and many workers remained for decades under Harry's benign management.
Such behaviour would never be allowed these days but plenty of people leave jobs because they don't like the way that others are being treated.

It depends on the nature of the issue. Also if an employee has been with the firm a while and valued.

Most people don't take the proverbial, you can soon suss those who do and be less lenient. However, emergencies happen, as do illnesses, and caring employers cater for those.

A lot of workplaces need employees to put in a lot of discretionary effort, because resources have been cut (and workloads haven't). So people are expected to do unpaid overtime, work at odd hours, pick things up that aren't part of their job etc

Businesses that expect that from people without giving them a degree of flexibility back often don't hold on to staff for long (or can't recruit them in the first place)

I haven’t read the whole thread… however in my own experience my employers have been very flexible. I have a teenager with Sn’s ..

I definitely stay because of how supportive they are. I currently start later due to exhaustion . They have definitely accommodated me which has meant I haven’t gone off sick .. I stay when it would be easier to leave at times .

I also put in there it is appreciated and I try and be more flexible when I can

I had to work yesterday, so I've taken half an hour twice today to sort things (I work from home). It's flexibility that keeps me very happy and I don't want turnover of my team. I say if you want to do yoga at 10am every Monday we'll schedule meetings around it. Then that person will stick much longer, they will also go out of their way when there is a deadline or event.

You are more than welcome to maintain your boundaries as you see fit.

However to be an inclusive and progressive society we need to cop the hell on that people come with all of their elements.

I have managed many people who have gone through hell, those who wished to not share further and those who choose to be completely open. Either are fine and both are whatever keeps that person functioning at times through the worst imaginable pain.

To those who were dismissive of someone who referred to friends issues. I have managed a younger staff member through that. They lost their complete support network and it devastated them. That's not a small issue and it can impact on MH and productivity. In my experience having a broad outlook gives me significant better team results.

You may want that flexibility yourself some day OP, whether for health reasons or because of caring responsibilities.