Maternity pay has gone too far

I agree. I think KB's proposals are stupid, but we are not doing mothers a service by suggesting or implying that breastfeeding means you are chained to your baby for a year. Cases of babies who could have nothing but milk from the breast for a year due to disability are very much the exception, not the norm. I started part-time at 5mo and increased to "almost full time" by about 9-10mo. Not for everyone, very much my choice, but perfectly compatible with breastfeeding. I pump-weaned at about 9mo - by that point, my breasts did not need emptying every few hours, and my baby was eating quite a lot of food.

I am all for good quality maternity leave policies and think Kemi Badendoch is awful BUT I did go back at 7 months as I had a relatively new job, still breastfeeding. I pumped during the day. Same baby is still enthusiastically nursing as a toddler despite full time nursery. It’s not either/or.

Also, with the best will in the world, men can’t breastfed.

Did you not see where I said that he worked away? My dad was incredible. It doesn’t change the fact that he was a pilot. Pilots work away.

Maybe your dad should've stepped up then and helped. It shouldn't have been all of your mum but that is how some dad's are

Do you really think workers have more rights than the employer?
If a company only offers statutory pay then they claim it back from the government, so they aren’t out from the mother receiving it. So how is this a barrier for a small business to succeed?

A woman also needs to give notice of taking maternity leave no later than 15 weeks before the due date, firstly that isn’t particularly small and it’s not that common to leave it so late in the pregnancy anyway.
Whereas if the company wanted to terminate the workers employment they likely only need to give 4 weeks.
What balance of power is off?

A business that employs people for their labour has to factor in all sorts of regulatory statutory entitlements into their workplace planning, sick leave, dependents leave, annual leave. Maternity leave is no different. I never see small businesses complaining about the 5.6 weeks of annual leave they need to pay in exchange for no work.

My mum did that with me. When I got pregnant she told me how hard it was and how ill it had made her. My dad worked away and she had no family support.

Why should we expect people to just about cope, sacrificing their mental and physical health, when we could support them to thrive?

Anyone I know who went back before 12 months and think 12 months is excessive typically went back on very reduced hours and the baby went to family a lot.

I had to go back full time and the babies went full time childcare which I absolutely did not want them to do before 1y.

I think something like 80% pay for 6 months and SMP for another six is a more family supporting proposal.
Paternity needs to be 3 months at 80% across the board. Until men take more than a week off mothers will not be equal in the workplace.

Anyone who thinks, the now increased rate of £170 a week for 9 months is excessive is a fucking loon imo.

Ha. Obviously, as a mother, I’m aware that you start weaning at 6 months. However, milk should be the primary source of nutrition for a year. How do you manage that if you’re not at home with your baby? We should be doing everything we can as a society to support mothers to give their babies the best start in life. It’s hard enough as it is.

As outlined last night, six months leave isn't long enough to get the baby sufficiently weaned onto solids that they can be left for a full working day five days a week.

Another poster has already commented on Denmark, but this is not correct for Sweden either. In Sweden it's 480 days (so almost 70 weeks), although for the last 90 days you only get around £15 day. The earlier 370 days are paid at a rate that is proportional to income.

6 months in I wouldn’t have coped with work. I had a baby that hated sleep unless being held and we didn’t get more than a couple of hours sleep until she was a year old.

I used to work in nurseries and many women were EBF and mat leave was 12 weeks then. They used to feed on drop off, leave expressed for us to give and then feed on pick up. They used to express during the day at work. It was the norm then as mat leave was much less flexible and most went back at 9 or 10 weeks.

You are.

If people were paid enough so that one wage was enough to keep a family, pay rent/mortgage, feed, clothe, pay bills etc & the other parent could stay at home to care for children maternity pay wouldn't be such an issue. But the world we live in means that unless both parents work, there is no chance of a good standard of living. When I bought my first home, my mortgage was less than 3 times my annual salary, that house is now worth more than 5 times the current salary for the job I did. Wages haven't kept up with rising inflation & house prices, then if you factor in childcare as well women are returning to work & after childcare have very little salary left. Kemi Badenoch has stabbed herself in the foot & effectively ruled herself out of the leadership race.

That of course is what the de-regulators don't like. They are happy for firms who want to compete for good lawyers, managers, accountants and engineers to offer maternity leave. But they don't see why firms that can get a ready supply of minimum-wage workers from the DWP should have to keep on women who want to go on maternity leave.

but then how does it help a business survive if this situation happens not long after they start ?

not advocating anything that breaks laws

I've had experience of women accepting jobs when they know they will need maternity leave, but not informing their new employer

What you’re implying here is that if the employer knew, they would not hire her. Which is discrimination.

Kind of obvious why a woman might keep this to herself at interview then, isn’t it.

@TriesNotToBeCynical I am certain she referred to deregulation. I don't think she said precisely what and how she wanted to deregulate, just that regulation (not the size of statutory mat pay) had "gone too far". I fear the amount of deregulation would depend on exactly what they could get away with. Maybe no maternity pay for small and medium businesses - who knows?

Are you just assuming tho?

She said:

"Tax comes from people who are working, we're taking from one group of people and giving to another," she added. "This, in my view, is excessive."

I've had experience of women accepting jobs when they know they will need maternity leave, but not informing their new employer.

Maternity leave should be paid - I totally agree.

But how is a small business meant to cope with an employee going off on paid maternity leave at short notice and having to find a replacement.

I appreciate this may not happen in all cases, but it does happen.

And the employee has all of the rights, none of the responsibilities and the small business is left trying to fill the position - sometimes there doesn't seem to be a proper balance.

I think balance is what's missing in the business world - the balance between workers' rights and responsibilities and the employer's rights and responsibilities.

Both sides have rights
Both sides have responsibilities

I am certain she referred to deregulation. I don't think she said precisely what and how she wanted to deregulate, just that regulation (not the size of statutory mat pay) had "gone too far". I fear the amount of deregulation would depend on exactly what they could get away with. Maybe no maternity pay for small and medium businesses - who knows?

This. I took her comment to mean she wanted to deregulate Mat leave and have firms decide what to pay rather than a statutory amount. A real short sighted, idiot - I say that as a Tory, and if she becomes leader or in any way relevant I would stop all support for the party. They did sweet FA for maternity policies and regulating the nursery/child care sector anyway.

The point of traditional conservatism is to get more people into work and the ridiculous unregulated nursery sector coupled with rubbish maternity policies is why so many women give up work. Nursery fees are insane, nursery staff are poorly paid, they're all run by American private equity companies with billion dollar capitalisation AND they're over subscribed. In cities like London you have to register with a nursery as soon as you're pregnant to get a place and even then you may be on a waiting list. Many companies are inflexible on pick up drop off times for nursery. Most couples don't have access to decent affordable child care and the statutory mat leave is a pittance anyway.

With KB it's a case of women in power being the biggest blockers for other women. Even enhanced mat pay at top corporates is terrible and most HR directors for these same corporates are women - easy to create a Diversity & Inclusion committee, tougher to put their money with their mouth is.

@TriesNotToBeCynical (love the user name!)
Are you certain that Ms Badenoch referred to a definite deregulation of maternity pay or are you assuming?

I think you need to consider that Ms Badenoch is talking about deregulation of maternity leave. This would no doubt mean that firms did not have to grant any maternity leave, paid or otherwise, or take employees back after it. So the exact amount, as she said later, is not the issue.

@Havanananana happy that you've set me straight😊!

I note that most employers also pay up to 90% of salaries for the full 40 weeks of leave (minus the portion paid by the State).

I'm not arguing here - but there's a difference between statutory maternity pay from the Government and what an employer decides to pay.

I think the table I posted just showed State / Government statutory pay??
Which is what we were discussing??

@Manchegos Well no, but it’s understandable isn’t it. If someone has always wanted a child and thinks it’s her last chance, she may accept circumstances she wouldn’t have ten or even five years earlier

Well acually no - I can totally understand a woman wanting to have children!

But should you have a child just because you want one?? It's not an absolute! right