To not want to meet up with this rude woman?

Sorry, but I don't recognise that at all. My brother has a group of 3 friends from his school days who he sees every couple of months, despite them all living in different parts of the country. My Dad is a truly crappy father, but has friends from school, and has just spent months helping an old bandmate during his last few months alive because he had no-one else. My StepDad, (much better at the Dad stuff than my Dad) also has a good 4 really close friends.

I'd say the same about most of my male friends as well, they've all got other, longstanding friendships.

I'll give you that we may not see each other or talk quite as frequently as female friendships do, but I'd really take issue that most men don't have close friendships.

Anyway, it seems I've derailed the thread a bit, so I'll leave it there so OP can keep getting advice.

FWIW I would give Marian one more chance. You never know what she might have been dealing with prior to that night out, and if you see her again you'll very quickly be able to establish whether the nightmare night was a one off, or whether she is actually a living nightmare all the time. And if it's the latter, you can say to Jane that you really tried to like Marian, you even gave her a second chance to get to know, but unfortunately she just isn't your cup of tea. Writing her off after one meeting, no matter how terrible she was, probably wouldn't go down well with Jane. If you value Jane's friendship and she yours, she will appreciate your extra effort before writing Marian off.

I'd nod, smile and carry-on.

OP, Marian is uncouth, leave her to Jane.
I would tell her you would prefer to catch up on your own.
I cannot believe ye sat there waiting for 45 minutes, very strange.
It would be very normal to have ordered and carried on after max 15 minutes.

You seem to be taking this lateness awfully personally. I would have ordered some starters and got on with the evening. You weren’t hosting, and it was someone else’s birthday, so I think if she’d not been permanently outraged, I’d let it go too.

However, if you don’t like a friend’s friend, best to be upfront about it, and say you didn’t like her and don’t want see her again. Most well-balanced adults will accept that not everything they like will automatically get along with one another.

Maybe not most men - I don't know what research tells us about this - but certainly some. My son is in his 30s and has several really good male friends who he's known a long time.

I think that's true of most men

It isn’t. and you know it

My best friend is actually, but my other 5 close friends are all men, 2 of whom I've known for just as long.

hoping the idea will just fall by the wayside, but if Jane pushes it I’ve no

oh that so sweet of her, but really Jane I don’t think she is my cup of tea, fine in a crowd of us but a more intimate meet up just the 3 of us might be a bit difficult. I’m sure you can make my excuses

@VimesandhisCardboardBoots your best mate of thirty years is… a woman?

it is very well known that the majority of men, as they age, often do not have the close life affirming friendships that women do.

Don’t pretend otherwise, it’s daft

Yes? I've got friends who go back 30 years. We've supported each other through divorce, death of parents and spouses, and speak to each other (if not see each other) weekly.

I think that's true of most men. On the other hand we don't tend to bend over backwards to please our friends or pretend to be happy with a situation when we're not

Not a big deal. My two besties can't stand each other. I didn't realise initially but it's totally obvious there is no warmth when the others name comes up in conversation. I don't know why and I don't care. They are great friends to me and don't need to like each other

Same here. I have two lovely best friends - they just don’t seem to like each other. It’s not a big deal and I don’t care either. They live in different towns and so there is no crossover. I meet both of them separately or in different groups (one friend is from school, the other from uni) I am certainly not upset about it- why would I be? We are all different and not everyone is going to click with everyone. Thats just life 🤷🏻‍♀️

because men are known for having really good, supportive and enduring friendships aren’t they?

Why on earth wouldn't you just say you don't like Marion @BucketBouquet ?

This is another one of those problems men just don't have. In the same situation it'd just be "Mate, Deans a knob. He kept us hanging around for ages last time and then wouldn't shut up. I'd love to see you but I'm not travelling all that way for an evening that'll end up being all about Dean and his shit."

And then my friend would either shrug and go "You're right, he is a bit of a dick isn't he." or shrug and go "I think you're being a bit harsh but fair enough, I won't invite him."

Time with good friends is precious. I would tell Jane that you love being in her company and that you'd prefer to keep it that way. I wouldn't bring Marion up again, unless Jane specifically mentions that she wants Marion to be included. Chances are it may not amount to anything.

Perhaps Jane is the only one that’ll put up with Marian’s rudeness and verbal diarrhoea? Marian could be buttering her up so that Jane continues to meet up with her and give her the audience she craves.

Or - and this would be a genuine worry - Marian is a bit of a bully and has pushed her way in and Jane is too timid or polite to say anything while Marian walks all over her. From what you’ve said, it looks like Marian might be trying to push in on Jane’s friendship with you too by pretending she liked you. I notice that Jane didn’t want to order until Marian had arrived, even though she was really late. It seems Marian likes to be in charge, even if only indirectly.

Not a big deal. My two besties can't stand each other. I didn't realise initially but it's totally obvious there is no warmth when the others name comes up in conversation. I don't know why and I don't care. They are great friends to me and don't need to like each other.

I'd just make excuses and avoid seeing Rude Woman again. Your friend will stop suggesting it. She sounds like she's a little in awe of this woman and wanted to show her off to you.

i doubt she’ll care

ok if you were local, and in your teens and socialising as a group was something you all did together every weekend… sure

but you’re not local
you’re not in your teens
you and her get together 4/5 times a year, so next time invite her to yours and i’d wager that Marion isn’t even mentioned

how old set you both op?

I reckon Jane was just chatting, chewing the fat and doesn’t actually really care either way with you and Marion ever get together again!

Life is way too short to spend time with rude people you don't have much in common with on purpose.

I would be direct with Jane and say that as you don't see each other very much, you would rather it was the two of you.

Maybe rude, self absorbed late friend has fomo? Rather than a great desire to see you again, they probably would like to geg in when Jane does. Jane's friend sounds insufferable, so I wouldn't.

If I was ever in the position of meeting up in a group with them again, I would say meeting at X for drinks and y time for food. Then I would stick to that.

How was the bill split?

I second the posts saying that Marian hasn’t actually said she wants to meet you, and that Jane is just trying to engineer this to make it easier to meet friends at the same time. (No offence meant- you sound great! But I can’t see someone this self-centered volunteering that she thought someone else was great and she’d like to meet them again. More likely Jane said ‘what did you think of OP- she’s great isn’t she?’ And Marian said ‘oh yeah, sure, she seemed nice’ and Jane has run with it for her own reasons).

Marian will like anyone who will just sit and listen to her

Not wanting to spend time with a stranger you met only once through a mutual friend isnt "upsetting anyone" though is it?

Would you have an expectation that your friends MUST also be friends with other people you know? If they expressed to you that they werent really their cup of tea would you be super upset about it?

I think you are blowing this up into a bigger deal than it needs to be. You didnt even know this person a few weeks ago, now it sounds like you feel obliged to make friends with her just because Jane likes her. You really dont.

I would go against the grain here and give gobby Marian another chance. Maybe she was so chatty because of being nervous/ guilty she was late, and had to meet new people? Maybe she is a bit ND and is not great at being likeable at the first meeting. Your friend likes her, so she clearly has something good about her? Meet her again in a calm relaxed environment, and if its still the same as the first time - tell Jane you dont think its a goer.

Edited to add: not all good people are good at making good first impression.