NC Parents Secretly Seeing Kids

Your children will come into contact with bigots, sadly everyone does, you can’t control that but you can raise them with values that ensures that they find people with those views as offensive as you do.

I would be very open and honest with regards to your reasons to be NC and then leave it to your DS to decide his own course of action, which may well take time, but be patient. I would also point out to him that sneaking around and keeping secrets is wrong and his grandparents should never have put him in that position.

My DS was a little older when we had to explain why we were NC with a family member. Initially like you we had chosen not to give full details but when it became apparent that DS still wanted to meet up with them we explained all the details. He was very upset initially to find out the full truth but has never wanted contact with them since.

I think your ds is old enough to be presented with the facts and the impact of of your in laws behaviour on you and his siblings

How sad that your ds feels he needs to keep it secret from you.

This is the bit that he needs to know about. My parents always thought I would be too upset to hear things like this about my sibling but actually they were more upset by them than I was. Knowing all the facts means he can make informed decisions. It isn’t fair on him to be stuck in the middle and feeling guilty.

I think it’s a really difficult one OP. I think it depends on if your DS actually wants to see them or if he feels he should out of duty. If they are making him feel guilty and coercing him, that’s not on and it’s important that you tell him you will protect him from them if he feels trapped. If he genuinely does want to see them, then I’d talk to him about boundaries and that they may try to cause trouble between you and them and that he can choose to change his mind at anytime. Good luck with your talk with him

Bollocks to this right to see them nonsense. He is still your child. Lying and meeting up with them behind your back, is really not on and is manipulation on the in laws part.

Tell your son the full story, and I mean ALL of it. Lying to you is not acceptable, and if he wants to see them then he should be fully informed about what they're like, including what they said about his sister.

I would have an honest conversation with your son about what they've said and done. You don't need to keep secrets at that age. He is old enough to meet with them if he chooses to, but given all the facts it's likely that he'll feel the same way as you.

The grandparents are sly and will use this to score points against you.
He’s 15, they aren’t a danger to him and you can’t keep him away from them just because you don’t like their views. He will experience all kinds of speech and views from all kinds of people as he grows and form his own opinions. We can’t control it as parents.
I would personally hate this situation and have a similar example in my own family who luckily lives a long way away and has never bothered with my dc so hopefully this never happens but I wouldn’t put it past them to try and get some flaws in to spite me. I don’t think there is anything you can do except explain and hope he sees it for himself. The grandparents will have been loving this, maybe if you let him go with your blessing it will take the wind out of their sails a little?

Jesus….I’m so sorry

He’s old enough to be told the truth and as much as it hurts to say the word he needs to hear the disgusting comment they made about his sister.
If you have proof such as text messages that show their behaviour then also show him that.
Try and tell him in a neutral manner if possible.

My friend and her husband went through something similar with his brother and wife. After alot of truly vile comments and lies and other dreadful stuff they went NC when their daughter was 8.
At first they told her that her uncle had been nasty and once she was a teen told her the full truth as by then she would be going to school or going out without them being there at times. And the brother lived in the area.

I think this isan important point.

You cannot prevent a 15yo having an independent relationship with this GPs. Forbidden fruit tastes all the sweeter. So it may well settle back rapidly to the previous lower frequency.

And don't worry too much about hearing even appalling language from then. Your DH was brought up by them and came out of it all right, Your DS is bound to hear atrocious stuff in school (teens make a lot of mistakes - and it's not just the "wrong crowd" who can go through nastily bad patches) and he needs to learn to deal with that too.

So talking to him - and really listening to what he has to say - are important both for this and for navigating the other rocks of the teenage years. So yes, I would tell him more about what ILs have done, and why several people (you, DH, SIL etc) no longer want to be around them. Remind him that if they make him feel uncomfortable, he should tell you about it. That he doesn't need to keep secrets from you because, whatever happens, you are on his side.

And never interrogate him about what happens when he sees them (never more than a bland "hope you had a nice time, did you do anything special?" sort of general enquiry about his thoughts) Let him decide if he wants to tell you more.

(One thing I would really want to know is how they got back in touch and how he was persuaded in to the first meeting. But I wouldn't ask that directly unless he said something that made it the blazingly obvious follow up)

And talk to DH - these are his direct relatives, and you need his agreement on the line you both take with DS.

The issues you have with them won’t be the same conversations your ds will have with them. If you stop him from seeing them there’s honestly a chance in the future he’ll be calling you controlling and considering going nc with you (not trying to be funny)

I agree. He is entitled to meet them if he wishes.

However, op, I am not happy about the secrecy aspect. In view of the broken relationship I can imagine either grandparents or your son thinking, and saying, "Best not to tell mum and dad".

Given how cross you are I understand why they feel that way.

Now there is no need for secrecy!

Let him do as he wants regarding his grandparents, it's hardly going to hurt you. Please try to contain your disapproval, none of this is your son's fault.

On the basis of why you went NC, using that awful word about your daughter, I would be spelling out to your son exactly what they did and that you will consider it extremely disloyal to his sister and his parents to go against your wishes whilst he lives in your house.

They are disgusting people and I would be spelling that out to him in great detail.

Are the GP’s bribing him with treats and money and the suggestion of future gifts/inheritance in order to get him to meet them?

Obviously he’s being manipulated to sneak around as a FU to you and DH. Do you think they actually care about him as their grandson?

A former colleague who held racist views used to get upset when her 2 student grandsons strongly disagreed and argued with her and I think over time it helped change her mind on several issues as she had previously believed what she read in the right wing press without consciously thinking about it.

Your ds is 15. I don't think you can dictate to him that he can't have a relationship with his grandparents. That would be controlling and unreasonable.

However, I would have an open and honest discussion with him about why you went NC. About the poor treatment of dd, about the racism, all of it. He needs to understand why you made the decisions that you made, and he can then make properly informed decisions of his own.

It will hurt if he decides to carry on seeing them anyway, but I think you risk doing more damage to your relationship with ds in the long term if you try to control him.

He's old enough to make his own decision, he's also old enough to know the full reason why you're no contact. Sit him down and talk to him about it, then let him decide if it's still what he wants.

I think that’s exactly the reason you should tell him. He’s not giving informed consent otherwise, he has a right to know the full details if you’re asking him to make his decision based on them.

I'm sorry to say that all the grown ups have made decisions on ds' part and he is being used as a pawn. Telling him he can't see them for reasons that are not his business is only going to make them seem all that more appealing and make him feel like he is being a grown up and taking control of his life as teenagers are wont to do.

Are frustrating as this is to you, I don't think there is a lot you can do. It's like telling a child they can't be friends with a particular person and it makes them hang around with them more...

I would be concerned that he was being controlled and manipulated. Their behaviour shows that they are willing to put your son in a difficult and awkward situation. If you feel he is old enough to make the decision to see them, I think you have to paint a clear and detailed picture of why you have made the decision to go no contact

At 15, you have to respect your son’s wishes if he wants to meet his grandparents. Even if you don’t like them. You shouldn’t be trying to sway him either. He’s an individual in his own right.

If he wants to see them I'd facilitate it.

But I'd give him the full details of why you're all no contact first and let him decide once in possession of all the facts. I'd do this in a factual way, rather than an emotive way too because I think the latter could come across as manipulative.

presumably he’s witnessed their homophobic, racist, sexist and all round profoundly cruel and unpleasant views many many times in the past

and yet….

Oh he is definitely old enough to be told the full facts.

I would also ask him to think about why his GP's have suddenly started to contact him and show an interest AFTER you've gone NC.

Put it to him this could of course, be that they're interested but, if they are now, why weren't they before?

Or, they're using him to get at you, to dig for info about what you're all up to...

I'd frame this as part of a discussion about adult behaviour, adult agendas and how simply being related to someone doesn't necessarily mean they've got your best interests at heart!

Do it properly, adult discussion, ask for his thoughts and properly listen... don't just talk AT him, but also, don't hold back. They've referred to your DD as a 'sp&z'... so do tell him that, don't fanny around there!