NC Parents Secretly Seeing Kids

It's interesting they're now seeing him so regularly, since you went NC. My feeling is they're doing it deliberately to get up your nose/show you who's boss. You need to take the wind out of their sails - tell DS exactly why you went NC, then tell him if he wants to continue seeing them, fine, but it must be above board, no more secrets.
I think that will take the fun out of it for your PIL and they might drift away again.

@AlliBali DS is old enough to hear the reasons in full, presented without emotion or bias (understand that’s hard) and for you to say, ‘whether you see them or not is up to you, we will not hold it against you if you wish to stay in contact, but here are the events that have resulted in us and others going NC’.

You absolutely need to tell him that part. How much more upset would he be if you don’t and he carries on seeing them then discovers you’d withheld that part later.

Please tell him. What they’re doing is horrible - it looks like they’re only seeing him like this in order to have the last word and to get one up on you. They’re using him.

Tell him everything, including that. He needs to be upset. Hopefully he then won’t want to indulge them any more and you can message MIL:

’a shame. We hadn’t told DS exactly why you’ve been cut off, we didn’t think he needed to really know the extent of your poisonous natures. Obviously now we’ve had to make things clearer for him. You won’t be surprised to know that he wants nothing further to do with you. You’re blocked. Have the lives you deserve’

Is it possible he might be receiving "pocket money" from them? Something to be keeping him controlled and visiting them?

As upsetting as it is your Ds needs to know the full story about what and what they have said. Not just to you and your family but to his Auntie and Uncle too.
He doesn't want to let them down but will be letting down his sister and the rest of the family by seeing them without knowing the full story.
Be prepared for them to lie through their teeth if Ds confronts them about what they have said.

If DS knew what they'd said about his sister would he still want to see them do you think OP?

I'd share every nasty detail of their behaviour with your ds. Make sure he understands how loathsome they are. Explain that them telling him to keep secrets is never ok and you are very disappointed in him but understand that the nastiness and spite come from them.

I'd do everything to discourage him from meeting them. Make it clear he owes them nothing.

Or move to get away from them.

The grandparents will deny saying the awful things, can BiL talk to him after you have?

Yep. This. Given how horrendous the slur was, it’ll be difficult to talk about without seeming to be trying to influence his decision, but if they can find a way to couch it in neutral terms - bald facts - then I think he has a right to know the kind of people he is potentially going to become closer to.

(he's aware of the NC and some of the general reasons why but no details).

I'd tell him the details for NC.

Separate to this punish him for lying - explain he could have choose to approach you about contact instead he gone behind your back and lost your trust and potentially lying about where and who he is with put himself in danger (not implying his GP are a threat to him just that behaviour in generally is very worrying).

How to move forward - well don't know probably have to allow contact as he is 15 and you need the lying and going behind your backs to stop.

I completely see your side, but in the interest of not alienating your son I think you need to accept this and just be ready with open arms should anything occur.

You need to let a 15-year-old make up his own mind. You are making a fatal error here, trying to intervene and stop contact. It would not be hard or unreasonable for them or him to paint you as autocratic and divisive yourselves. His experience of them will be very different to your experience of them and you need to accept that is the case. he will reach his own conclusion in time, that may or may not result in him going no contact with them. What you want him to avoid is him going NC with you.

Definitely give your DS the full story, including what they said about his sister, and any unpleasant texts they sent. I’d also ask him to consider why they might be meeting up with him. Don’t accuse them of this, but suggest to him that one possibility is to undermine you and your DH, and ‘get one over’ on you. It looks very much like he’s being used.

Be clear to him that you can’t stop him, but ask him to calmly think about why you’re all NC and what the real motivation of his GPS might be.

When you have the conversation, I don't think I could bring myself to use that word, but I'd say that they used a vile disablist slur to refer to his sister. He can draw his own conclusions.

Yes, you need to be more open with him about the history here. And I think it's also time for a discussion about the sort of motives adults who ask children to keep secrets might have. If they've gone from seeing him a couple of times a year to meeting up every couple of weeks, it's clear he's been recruited (i.e. groomed) into an arrangement that's purely designed to spite you and your wishes. He needs to think about how they approached him and how it made him feel to be 'chosen' by them, so he can identify any other kind of grooming and manipulation from other people in the future.

God that’s awful. No wonder you went NC. I get that you’re worried about DS seeing them because they sound like a terrible influence for him at his age. But I think if you forbid it outright, it will just increase the sneaking around and burden him with guilt.

I think the solution is an open and age appropriate conversation with him to let him know some of the more unsavoury details as to why you went NC, and maybe include the slur against his sister if you feel it appropriate. I would make it clear that you’re not forbidding him to see his GP, but that you feel he needs to know the absolute truth about them so he can make a more informed decision about whether he wants them in his life. If he wants to carry on with contact, hopefully it won’t be too long before he realises how awful they are and contact will drop off. Until that happens I would offer to facilitate contact - drop him off/pick him up etc, so that you have eyes on the situation.

Why don't you just sit down your ds and explain everything they did.
Say its his choice to see them but you want to know before hand . No more sneaking around .
Maybe if he knows the truth he will choose to not see them .
Did you not expect him to ask at somepoint to see them? Or run into them

But it is a huge (and horrific) part of why you don’t see them - how can he make a decision without knowing the full story - he is old enough to know and you need to respect his right to make the decision to see them or not based on the full and frank circumstances

Everyone saying he’s old enough to make his own decisions. I’m guessing he’s not old enough to be paying for his own phone, which he uses to make these arrangements. So I’d definitely be taking it away for a couple of weeks and having a conversation about lying and sneaking behind your back. That’s actually separate from the issue of whether or not he sees his grandparents. What if it was an older man he was secretly meeting? It’s a safeguarding issue.

I think you need to play the long game. He won't see them being dicks unless you let him.

So either let him see them alone or all go together. At least it will put MILS back up seeing you and hopefully she will let her hostility to you show infront of ds amd he will come to his own conclusion.

Me too! That really is appalling!😡

This, but he has a right to see them.