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BBC Drama

135 replies

Aquarius1234 · 27/09/2024 20:02

I used to watch most bbc dramas for years and years.
Since BBC have geared everything to I Player first and foremost, rather than for specific BBC one or BBC two.
Apparently there isn't separate controllers anymore. They don't care about where the dramas land like they used to.

Anyway. I'm really disappointed with the lack of really really good dramas in the last couple of years or so.
Budget cuts also maybe.
But wow I used to say nothing beats a great BBC gritty drama. Now I wouldn't even be able to find one 😕
Romance, crime, thriller. Was my thing.
I pay my licence also and have no intention to stop. I'm just very sad at the lack of top quality Dramas. Also I've noticed when there eventually is one starting it's generally mixed or rubbish reviews. !!
I'm shocked at the amount of rubbish/ not good enough stuff that is given the green light !!

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Tallisker · 05/10/2024 16:04

What on earth are gammony people?

DonnaBanana · 05/10/2024 15:33

Gammony people kick off if the BBC spends a lot of money on anything nowadays threatening to stop paying their licence fee etc so it’s no surprise they’re cutting a lot of corners

JaninaDuszejko · 05/10/2024 15:08

badgerpatrol · 02/10/2024 20:27

Just to add I am absolutely happy and want to see actors of colour in any role, just hate the hate (One Day) which was really good casting, but seemingly massive amounts of people couldn't get their heads around an Asian woman going to university and shagging a hot white dude (who she was too good for) in the 90's.
Happened to me, and I'm sure thousands of others but apparently no, too radical Confused

Loved the casting for Emma in the Netflix One Day. So much better than the dreadful film with Anne Hathaway's dreadful accent. Are all the people who don't think it could happen should watch This Life with Egg and Milly (first came out in 1996). I knew lots of mixed race couples in the 90s and it wasn't exactly a new concept, a third of the men who went to India with the East India Company in the 18th and early 19th centuries married Indian women.

muffledvoice · 02/10/2024 20:45

Just binge watched night sleeper, it kept me hooked haha

badgerpatrol · 02/10/2024 20:27

Just to add I am absolutely happy and want to see actors of colour in any role, just hate the hate (One Day) which was really good casting, but seemingly massive amounts of people couldn't get their heads around an Asian woman going to university and shagging a hot white dude (who she was too good for) in the 90's.
Happened to me, and I'm sure thousands of others but apparently no, too radical Confused

OrchardBlack · 02/10/2024 20:24

I agree with you about Doctor Foster OP, the first season was absolutely perfect.

Definitely give Apples Never Fall a go, it was a brilliant book and it matches all your interests.

badgerpatrol · 02/10/2024 20:20

JaninaDuszejko · 30/09/2024 17:28

I'd rather Wolf Hall was left as it was but there was also a TV drama series about the black people that actually were in the Tudor court, like John Blanke. There were hundreds of black people in Tudor London (the city had a total population of between 50K to 200K at this point), why not do a period drama about them? Colour blind casting can be done well but often is just a diversity box ticking exercise. You can make Anne Boleyn black in a TV series but that doesn't change everyone knowing she was actually white. You do a drama about John Blanke or one of the other black Tudors we know about and you change lots of people's understanding of the history of black people in Europe. There are lots of good black actors, they should be given meaty period drama roles.

ETA: thismay just be me getting old and fed up of yet another drama about Henry VIII and his wives.

Edited

I agree.
(I'm not white)
It's disappointing that stories and dramas of people of colour aren't commissioned, or tend to be 'Top Boy' cliques. (I heard this was good, but I can't watch violence/threat of violence anymore.)

badgerpatrol · 02/10/2024 20:09

LoudSnoringDog · 28/09/2024 08:51

I've not seen a decent bbc drama in years.

Used to love Cranford, lark rise to candleford and their dickens adaptations. Bleak house, little dorrit. Can't recall anything even remotely as good on recent years.

Those are my absolute favourite things to watch too, I hang out for Christmas because hopefully there's something of this vein on then. It's pretty much the only thing I would watch at Christmas

MasterBeth · 02/10/2024 17:00

harriettenightingale · 02/10/2024 09:37

So I assume it would be ok for Danny Dyer to play Martin Luther King?

Only if you assume that America's history of slavery, segregation, racism and fight for civil rights had never happened.

You cannot ignore the context that any complex, sophisticated, narrative work of art exists in.

MagentaRocks · 02/10/2024 15:14

harriettenightingale · 02/10/2024 09:37

So I assume it would be ok for Danny Dyer to play Martin Luther King?

That is so not the point. I don’t like real characters played by a different race, like the black Anne Boleyn for example as I like to be able to imagine what it was like and take myself back there, but the reason a black actor might be cast will be due to under representation. So the Danny Dyer playing MLK is not something that needs to happen.

harriettenightingale · 02/10/2024 09:37

So I assume it would be ok for Danny Dyer to play Martin Luther King?

MasterBeth · 01/10/2024 23:36

The thing with casting that is clearly unrealistic to the average viewer, when you are trying to create a kind of realist immersion, is first of all that it's not effective, they notice because they are not idiots; secondly that you are treating the audience as if they are fools, or an audience for them to preach to, both of which involve disrespect of the audience; thirdly that it does this for political reasons that have nothing to do with the artistic requirements of the project; and fourthly because it treats actors, even very fine ones, as racial tokens.

The thing that's interesting with casting that you deem "clearly unrealistic" is that it bothers you so specifically and so much. That ethnicity is such an marker of difference to you that you can't get over it. It transcends all other cues. You are quite prepared to see past the actual famous actorly faces of Mark Gatiss or Damian Lewis in a part, who you know are clearly not the characters they are playing because you are not an idiot, because they share the ethnicity of the historical figures they play, but your "realist immersion" is broken by a lesser known black or brown face. You can't unsee the colour.

Secondly, productions are not treating the audience as fools, but as intelligent enough to be able to see past ethnicity towards talent and performance.

Thirdly, the artistic requirements of the project are surely to hire the best ensemble of actors not the best ensemble of white actors, which would be a completely political decision

Be ause, fourthly, it is you who are literally advocating for casting actors because of their racial background. Because they are white.

paranoidnamechanger · 01/10/2024 23:07

I’ve just caught up with recent episodes of Slow Horses, a show so impeccably cast and crafted I can’t imagine it ever being on the BBC. Also, I guess Gary Oldman doesn’t come cheap. The Morning Show is also very well done and I read it costs $15,000,000 per episode to make.

Tallisker · 01/10/2024 10:24

@Seacatt thank you!

zaxxon · 01/10/2024 09:33

@TempestTost I disagree. If the actors in, say, an Elizabethan drama are good, I don't notice their ethnicity, any more than I notice their lack of wooden teeth or 21st-century height.

Bettyfromlondon · 01/10/2024 08:36

I too have recently enjoyed Sherwood but it took me a couple of tries to get into it. My biggest bugbear is that like many other recent drama series it was mainly filmed in the dark or gloom for no good reason. I often find myself shouting "Ffs! Turn the bloody lights on!!" at the screen. Good job I live on my own!
I already use the subtitles to combat the hyper-naturalistic mumbling style of speech now in favour despite my hearing having been assessed as in the normal range.
Anyway, I am soon to get an Apple subscription for as long as it takes to work through a list beginning with Slow Horses and moving on to Pachinko, La Maison, Shardlake and a police drama with David Tennant and Cush Jumbo.
For info : you can start and stop most streaming services quite easily as long as you keep an eye on your diary.

Planning to give Sambre a go later and the second series of The Twelve on
ITV x.
( Thank you! This thread has prompted me to check if there is a new series of Outlander out there somewhere. It has jumped from platform to platform so I have no idea if they are in the throes of the American War of Independence now.)

rainfallpurevividcat · 01/10/2024 06:33

It's because of the squeeze on funding. The Tories tried to destroy it. I think it does pretty well and I personally watch/listen to BBC content far more than anything else, in spite of plenty of other options being available.

MmedeGouge · 01/10/2024 03:42

LightSpeeds · 27/09/2024 22:15

It's the same with Radio 4. It used to have brilliant drama and comedy. It's mostly what educated me.

Now it's just a non-stop miseryfest of awful news, and repeats repeats repeats (of not very good programmes).

Absolutely, I agree.
It’s so disappointing.

Joystir59 · 01/10/2024 02:46

Nightsleeper on iPlayer is good

Seacatt · 01/10/2024 02:35

Tallisker · 29/09/2024 12:33

I'd love to watch A Fatal Inversion as I loved the book. I bought it on DVD but the quality was so poor it got stuck in the player (still there, I think). The little bit I saw was terrible quality.

So if anyone knows where I can watch it, I'd be grateful.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x81k0fy

It is here.

Dailymotion

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x81k0fy

TempestTost · 01/10/2024 02:25

MasterBeth · 30/09/2024 21:30

If Wolf Hall is meant to be highly realistic, why aren't the cast talking in Elizabethan English? Why do the 16th century buildings look hundreds of years old? Why is the 6ft tall Damian Lewis playing the 6'2" Henry VIII? Why are all the people gathering in combinations that look pleasing to the eye if you were to hold a 16:9 rectangle up to the screen? Why are many years of events played out over 6 x 1 hour episodes rather than in real time?

Because the whole grammar and practice of television is artificial. Nothing is real. Nothing is authentic. They're all pretending. And you happily accept it all unthinkingly because it's completely irrelevant to your understanding of the story.

And yet the thing that concerns you (I presume when you draw attention to "woke casting") is the ethnicity of one of the actors. This is disrespectful. Why is that your focus?

Yes, even realistic productions have all kinds of artificiality, I am afraid you are not making some kind of revelation here.

There are two major kind of artificialities in film and television. Ones where the audiences notice them as odd, and realize while watching that there is artifice; and then the ones that are the opposite, where they prevent the audience from noticing the artifice.

When you have a clearly unrealistic set, is an example of the former. Or real blind casting which could never be realistic is another. Surrealist elements in the filming, are another kind of example. There are lots of examples of film and TV like this.

It's not simple though - for example, when we watch a play written in the Elizabethan period, the language actually makes us more aware of the fact that it is a play, even though it's strictly more accurate for the period than using modern language.

Productions that are meant to be realist and immerse the viewer have to do all kinds of things, like use modern, but "old sounding" language, or make sure people's teeth aren't so bad they would be distracting, and all kinds of other deceptions that have the paradoxical effect of immersing the viewer.

Both can work and are totally valid approaches but you have to know which you are trying to create or you will do neither well.

The thing with casting that is clearly unrealistic to the average viewer, when you are trying to create a kind of realist immersion, is first of all that it's not effective, they notice because they are not idiots; secondly that you are treating the audience as if they are fools, or an audience for them to preach to, both of which involve disrespect of the audience; thirdly that it does this for political reasons that have nothing to do with the artistic requirements of the project; and fourthly because it treats actors, even very fine ones, as racial tokens.

The fifth reason is that even as a political statement, it's contradictory and hypocritical, because everyone understands why, in a realistic piece, you would use actors that looked as if they fit the appropriate ethnicity if they were talking a story set in India or Thailand or any other specific setting outside of Europe. (Heck, many people don't even like it when you cast non-Asian actors in anime based series that are clearly not at all realistic!) It's extremely disingenuous on the one hand to understand why people dislike unrealistic casting in those settings but pretend not to understand why people dislike it in Wolf Hall.

A lot of production companies now have, unfortunately, put pressure on to tick certain boxes, whether it makes sense for the production or not. Some will not ok productions that do not include certain elements. It's nothing to do with artistic merit, or some kind of artistic vision the production is trying to achieve. It doesn't have anything to do with making sense in the story. People wanting to watch a very well crafted, realist show like Wolf Hall, based on a highly detailed, realistic historical fiction novel, aren't jerks because they don't like that.

TempestTost · 01/10/2024 01:57

MasterBeth · 30/09/2024 21:33

You do realise you don't have to buy an Apply product to watch Apple TV+? It's a streaming service you can watch on any tablet or laptop as well as through an app on any (well, most) smart TV.

Well that is nice to know, because having asked the technology person at my house if I could do that, I was told no. It did not seem at all unbelievable that the Apple company would require you use one of their devices.

Now I will be able to argue we should lose the sports channel and get Apple TV.

MasterBeth · 30/09/2024 21:33

TempestTost · 30/09/2024 17:20

I have watched a few episodes of this at my mum's, but don't have access to Apple TV at home.

This is an issue overall I find, differernt services have one or two things I might want, but I can't afford them all. And I'm not going out to buy an Apple product just to watch Slow Horses or really any TV.

You do realise you don't have to buy an Apply product to watch Apple TV+? It's a streaming service you can watch on any tablet or laptop as well as through an app on any (well, most) smart TV.

MasterBeth · 30/09/2024 21:30

TempestTost · 30/09/2024 16:41

Does he look like he could have been an Elizabethan poet? Spanish, possibly? If so there's no issue, the nationality of his parents, or even their ethnicity, isn't relevant.

If it's not meant to be realistic, again, probably no issue. Which is one reason why it often works better in theater.

But in a historical drama that's meant to be highly realistic, it makes no sense, you might as well cast Ian McKlellan as Ramses the Great.

The larger issue is disrespect for the stories being told, which affects the writing badly in a lot of ways.

If Wolf Hall is meant to be highly realistic, why aren't the cast talking in Elizabethan English? Why do the 16th century buildings look hundreds of years old? Why is the 6ft tall Damian Lewis playing the 6'2" Henry VIII? Why are all the people gathering in combinations that look pleasing to the eye if you were to hold a 16:9 rectangle up to the screen? Why are many years of events played out over 6 x 1 hour episodes rather than in real time?

Because the whole grammar and practice of television is artificial. Nothing is real. Nothing is authentic. They're all pretending. And you happily accept it all unthinkingly because it's completely irrelevant to your understanding of the story.

And yet the thing that concerns you (I presume when you draw attention to "woke casting") is the ethnicity of one of the actors. This is disrespectful. Why is that your focus?

wavingfuriously · 30/09/2024 18:43

Tallisker · 29/09/2024 12:33

I'd love to watch A Fatal Inversion as I loved the book. I bought it on DVD but the quality was so poor it got stuck in the player (still there, I think). The little bit I saw was terrible quality.

So if anyone knows where I can watch it, I'd be grateful.

Remember watching it, was so good 👍 stuck in my mind

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