To be shocked that 97% of 12 years olds have smart phones?

@LaughingPig thank you for explaining your point of view. I do think there is a lot of sense in what you say.

On a slight tangent I have taught in schools, both state and private, with open access to smartphones at breaks and at schools where they are fully banned (even evenings/weekends in the case of one boarding school), and I know I would rather send my children to a school without smartphones.

I have also noticed though that some Gen Zers can be more capable or sitting with each other and giving one another their full attention without turning to their phones every few seconds than those of us who are millennials or older, and have wondered if having grown up with these phones they have learned along the way to regulate usage better. This is anecdotal, though. I haven’t read “The Anxious Generation” for comparison.

I haven’t fully formed my opinion on all this yet but I do think it’s worth people who share the view of that smartphone free childhood movement, for better or worse, knowing that it exists. (Perhaps, in time, nuance will be added to the social media progression plan so it’s not 0 to 100).

My age limits for this kind of thing went out the window during covid.

Whilst my older 2 had previously has to wait til much older to get a smartphone, when covid hit I had to balance my youngest mental health needs and maintain his ability to speak to his friends, so he did end up with a one of our old phones with a cheap sim

Never before have I heard someone describe NOT giving a smart phone to a kid as ‘lazy’

You need to look up Jonathan Haidt or listen to his podcasts. These things are doing untold damage to kids. I’m really hoping that by the time my child gets to that age, that ‘dumb phones’ for under 16s are the norm. No kid will feel left out then. You really cannot police these things as much as you think and they’re so incredibly damaging in so many ways.

I'm not surprised at all. We were the meanest parents in the world as we only let dd2 had a phone once she was 11. Half way through year 6. Everyone in her class and year 5 already had a phone apparently.

While they don't need a phone for high school school it makes their lives 100% easier. Dd's use theirs for homework as its set on an app. It's used for bus tickets via an app, which they can also track the up to date bus time (they use the public bus). Some teachers also use kerboodle and other resources in class asking them to take out their phones. School rule is phones have to be in bags and switched off during the school day or they are removed until the end of the day. They also have WhatsApp for keeping in touch with friends/me.

For the ones whose kids have a phone at 11/12, so do they have free access to everything? Google, Instagram, Fb, YouTube etc and downloading different apps?
I hate the thought of this for my Dd, but she’s only 6 at the moment

The sooner we stop giving young kids smart phones the better, and the sooner we strop tracking them the better.

The kids may have Nokias for school but they definitely have smart phones waiting for them at home. It’s 2024, I’m surprised that you’re surprised.

@summerdawn

It is a cult of a very specific type of parent who want to take the lazy option of banning a tool that is an important and useful part of life for the vast majority. They are going to do enormous damage to their DC by denying them access to a communication device that virtually all of their peers will have on ideological grounds.

I agree there would be benefits in going back to 2004 and a world with no smartphones, but that is not going to happen. We therefore have to deal with the world as it is, by teaching and supporting DC to use smartphones safely.

Personally I think banning social media until 16 as this group want is a crazy idea. Giving that age group free access when they have been denied any previous experience would be a total disaster.

Of course family TVs are safer, but when my DC were teens (they are in their mid 20s now), most of their friends had TVs in bedrooms so the concern around content was the same as it is now for smartphones.

@LaughingPig I read your post above written around 9pm last night but did not know it referred to this specific movement. Could you explain in what way it is a cult?

I agree total numbers are small; however those on this thread who share the sentiment may want to look up their own school and could be surprised to find 10-20 people signed up - even close to 100 for some schools. This applies more to primary school parents as this ship is more likely to have sailed for those with children currently in secondary.

I do share your misgivings about Y9 as a cut off, because it’s still a vulnerable age but then holding out longer is even more untenable than this already feels.

I disagree about the TV analogy: a family TV in a shared living space does/did not pose the same risks, in my opinion.

@summerdawn

Unfortunately for the reasons I posted earlier, that campaign group is a cult. I believe they have 35,000 parents signed up- totally insignificant in a context of millions of DC in the U.K.

The vast majority of parents recognise that smartphones are here to stay (like it or not) and their use needs to be managed rather than banned.

Where I live I dont know a child past year 6 that doesn't have a phone . My ds is in year 5 and I'd guess at least 75% do and some have from year 2 onwards!

There is a chance the tide could turn on this. A big factor has been concern about teens missing out and being different from their peers. “Smartphone Free Childhood” is a grassroots movement which parents sign up to to share an intention to hold of smartphones till the end of year 9. If lots of others are in the same situation, it takes away that ostracism worry. On Thursday last week, data was released of parents signed up so far, arranged by region and school.

https://parentpactresults.smartphonefreechildhood.co.uk

https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2024/sep/26/uk-parents-join-pact-to-withhold-smartphones-from-children-until-they-are-at-least-14

(sorry if already posted; I didn’t read the full thread though did search for the words and didn’t see them)

My 11 year olds school have iPads for every pupil. A lot of their homework is completed on the iPad. 21st century schooling.

I’m more worried about the children sent to a “very very religious school” than the secondary age children with access to smartphones.

smartphones aren’t evil. They come with parental controls. They are simply a tool to access information. Information is good. What matters is making sure you talk to your children and know their interests. What matters is that your children are free to talk to you about anything, even if it doesn’t fit your personal world views. What matters is that you view them as people with a right to learn about the world, form their own opinions, and then have a good natured discussion with their parents.

I am very interested in the parents of other faiths who choose to send their children there though. Around 100 applicants each year for 20 “other faith” places.

Thats not abnormal. Parents of faith like faith schools because values are often similar, including the importance of faith, regardless of whether it’s the same religion.

This.

Y7s enter secondary school as children and leave (assuming y13) as adults (although y11 isn't far off). It's a phase of life building those skills to be independent, functioning adults and they need the tools to make that transition in the world they live in.

Quibbling over smart phones/ dumb phones is usually semantics when the negatives of smart phone use can often be experienced through other forms of tablet/ pc/ gaming system.
The problem is largely social skills/ awareness.

I went for the delay until y6 approach. Christmas y6 gave chance for a couple of terms of learning curve in the closed environment of primary school where the stakes are a bit lower than secondary school and problems easier to identify, flag up, manage and learn. DS was already walking a short distance to/ from school but didn't greatly matter about phone access so there was no rush.

Secondary is different. He needs access to a phone with an app to use the bus. There are no payphones on the 3 mile journey home, or safe places to pop in to make a phone call. We had one day of a storm with trees being down, bus services heavily delayed and diverted. Being able to access the bus website and google maps was a godsend. Timetables and maps have disappeared from public spaces along with the payphones.

We use parental controls and manage app usage. This is not foolproof but I'd rather build up the practical and social skills gradually rather than ignoring until late teens and hoping for the best at a time when I have less influence.

Schools round here said they were going to start cracking down on smartphones, and then the LA and transport company that buses most of the secondary age kids to school made the buss pass an app...

The only people I know these days with a Nokia are drug dealers 🙈

Is this some daily mail reader- esque “yet they all have widescreen tvs” comment?

There will be a large percentage of that percentage that are UNDER 12 (so this doesn’t apply to them) and a likely even larger percentage of the remainder with a hand me down phone and probably a contract under a tenner a month.

I would hazard less than 3% of the children on roll at school attend a “very very religious” school who mandates dumb phones, so I’m not the slightest bit shocked. Nor do I think that policy is somehow radically solving a problem.

Even i gave in at 12 because my DD started high school then and i wasn't having her as the only one without. They all had them - unfortunately at our local high, they are encouraged and teachers ask kids to take pics of homework, look things up etc.

So, no, it does not surprise me at all.

Really? My son is 11 and all his friends have them, I thought it was normal

I will caveat this by saying I am in no way an expert but I don’t think there are enough features/detail/points stored to come close to generating a print

Marries up with this https://www.bbfc.co.uk/about-us/news/children-see-pornography-as-young-as-seven-new-report-finds