To be shocked that 97% of 12 years olds have smart phones?

My y7 has a Nokia and my y10 got a smartphone at the start of y9. But he only has WhatsApp, no social media. I think social media is brain poison and you'd have to be insane to give it to your kids. School homework apps can be checked at home on the laptop. This is to me is parenting. Following the herd because you think everyone else has one strikes me as insane.

I'd expect almost all kids to have a phone once they go to secondary and the vast majority of those to be smart phones. So no I am not surprised at all.

In my mind though it isn't just about access to a smartphone, the level of digital of information on a child, their behaviour whether good or bad, what they eat, their attendance, their health and wellbeing, all captured data and retained for years, this level of surveillance on children is extremely damaging but is not considered so, it isn't just about smartphones, they aren't the only thing that is damaging young people's mental health and happiness.

Yes you're being quite naive. I can see you've said you were in the US, but there's been a growing and growing campaign to have Smartphone Free Childhoods etc etc, and lots of debate about how schools should ban phones. And surely they wouldn't be having that debate unless there was a problem?

This article is good https://www.thetimes.com/article/1100fdd2-79b1-4dc5-88e6-de87d2319294?shareToken=9ebc7793f3d212ca7aaea87174044798 (hope the share token works)

I'm in London too and a local academy trust bans smartphones (kids are expected to have a brick or nothing, but most have a smartphone at home). Other state schools are less good at banning - trying to say phones must be off, not seen, not heard, but the consequences are much less (given back at end of the day, whereas academy trust gives them back at the end of the term).

FWIW I think the issue is about social media use, and parents not understanding what their kids are up to, but that's for another thread! Also not having rules about screen time. Like the Sunday Times experiment, look up Panorama on the BBC, Can We Live Without Our Phones - worth watching.

I'm not against the idea I'm just wondering how it would practically work as it would need a huge psychological shift in the way schools are run at all the secondary schools I know so I'm just doubtful that would happen but who knows maybe if some solutions were workable it would be easier than imagined.

@Goldenbear you know these apps aren’t free for schools and cost lots of money anyway. I stand by putting children’s mental health above school systems. Systems can be changed

Yes but if you don't have a laptop which is the case for many people and much more prevalent than not (problematic in COVID times) then the smartphone really is the only device to access this educational set up on. Your friend would be accommodated as it is one person but a school doesn't have the budget to do this for everyone.

@Goldenbear my friends school is similar to what yours sounds like. However the school make accommodations for her daughter as they have no iPads or smartphones (they cant afford this expensive tech it as a family). They do have one family laptop which they do school app stuff on so it’s really not an issue. I’m not anti screens but there’s something particularly bad about smart phone use in children. It’s really not necessary

That is quite a sizemic change though and requires schools to revert back to delivering pre smart phone era. So for example, my DD's school would have to be totally reorganised digitally in terms of reporting sickness, the canteen system for food purchasing scrapped, lots of subjects homework scrapped, reverting to textbooks or worksheets - don't think they have the money for photocopying all of this. The communication system is an app. Parents evening is an app. My eldest is at 6th form and it would actually be easier as not as reliant on apps but the big one is the dashboard where everything is communicated.

@Goldenbear yes I believe the mental wellbeing of children is more important than school apps. There are studies coming out that show how vulnerable children’s brains are to these screens, how they are changed and affect attention and mental wellbeing. Also the risk of seeing awful things online when the brain isn’t developed yet is a high and once seen can never be unseen. There are long term effects to all this.

I understand the principle behind this but where education is organised and delivered using Apps, what is the impact on schools, are they realistically going to drop all of these methods.

It’s so sad that children have smartphones. So much information on the detrimental affects of smartphone use in children coming out in various studies now. I really hope things are different when my kids are starting secondary school.

if anyone is interested there’s a smartphone free childhood movement gaining traction. https://smartphonefreechildhood.co.uk/

you can find your local school groups and make pledges to delay smartphone use so there will be less peer pressure to buy them. It’s so bad for children’s mental health. There’s absolutely no need for a child/teenager to have smartphones. I was fine with a Nokia as a teenager.

Apparently WhatsApp is one of the worst for mental health and bullying according to the police but all the social media apps are atrocious.

@Goldenbear
There wasn't a lot they could do about it. It would be me buying phones, and I said I wasnt buying them. They know when I say say no, its no.
I spend plenty on all their hobbies so they aren't hard done to. The hobbies teach skills and it's things they will probably keep doing for a life time and they are fun and healthy. That's worth my money. Arsing about on phones isnt.
Their Dad got them cheap androids at their 16th birthday in July, with pay as you go Sims, which they top up monthly from their part time jobs. If they run out they run out. So far they haven't because in reality they don't use them much.

Little sister is 12 and won't be getting one either. She will object and complain more because that's her nature. But she won't be getting one.

My cousins got theirs on their 6th birthdays! (By 7, they knew how to override parental controls and all sorts). It's not a pretty sight.

That is quite astonishing!

In the 90s many children took long bus journeys to school without having access to a phone...

And yet, there were public phone boxes on all main streets - so we all had a method of contacting our parents if needed. We would carry change for the phone or it was common for adults to give 20p to a child who asked for it because they needed to phone parents.

All the phone boxes are long gone...how else are today's children supposed to contact parents in an emergency?

A normal comprehensive school.

I actually don't agree that all 'screen time' is bad, high quality dramas and films are something I encourage my DC to watch as I want them to understand plot development and characters and it helps with their concentration. Many DC now don't have the concentration to watch a story for an hour or so, which IMO is hugely detrimental to their development.

Are they homeschooled or at private school?

No it's via Apps, websites in my DC's case this is only for Maths, Science subjects and Languages, IMO, languages is the worst, it is essentially more app than teacher!

My eldest is in a sixth form college for A levels and with his subjects, it has gone back to huge textbooks and lots and lots of reading from a reading list.

It’s certainly unusual.

Except that it is.
Sorry if it's convenient to you world view.

No chance that is true.

My younger two got them once they started secondary school mainly for the purpose of being able to contact me due to unreliable public buses to/from school. If we'd lived in a city where transport was frequent or it was possible to walk I probably wouldn't have so young.

It’s usually to provide instructions I.e. do x, y and z or attach a document to be printed out. You must be aware of google classroom, Teams is also used.