Excluded from grandchildren's life

I just think it's very sad.

Because the children in this case are seeing their grandparents on the mother's side all the time.

But they are not seeing their other set of grandparents.

In these scenarios it is usually the mother and the in laws relationship that breaks down, and then she stops the inlaws seeing the grandkids

it is usually the grandparents on the fathers side that suffer and miss out.

It's just sad, as I have seen grandparents suffer in real life.

I think if the mother falls out with her in laws, she can choose to not see them again, but she shouldn't punish her kids. They have their own relationship with their grandparents

The views of older children would be given more weight yes, although their view would be a factor to consider and wouldn’t be determinative. This is all a bit hypothetical though because a) it would all depend on how harmful the grandparents were considered to be, and 2) OP’s grandchildren are 3 and 5!

Yeah we were talking abour a potential scenario about older children.

Not 3 and 5 year olds.

If grandparents ask for contact, they may not be successful,

but the children will be asked in this process what they want to do. It's not just the parents decision.

It would be extremely unusual for grandparents to succeed in an application for a contact order though against the wishes of both parents and where there is no evidence of there being a significant and ongoing relationship with the children. And yes, you would take the child’s views into account if they were considered to be Gillick Competent but at 3 and 5 that test wouldn’t even be applied.

You would also ask your children what they want, I'm sure.

Grandparents can apply to court to get access to grandchildren

For me that would be a judgment call between myself and DH based on their levels of understanding and ability to weigh up the pros and cons of a situation to arrive at a decision that is in their own best interests. I agree with OP here - at 3 and 5 years old they would probably choose to have chocolate cake for breakfast every day, doesn’t mean you let them.

I suspect the other side of this story would be very entertaining

@GrandmDEA I'm sorry you don't see them as much as you'd like and can understand that you are disappointed they didn't come at the weekend. However they probably are very tired 4 weeks into term.

In your shoes I would be doing my best to go to London and plan trips out with them. A birthday trip to the science museum? Natural history museum? London Transport Museum is great at that age. You may find they (the GC) engage with you much more this way and also they will have lovely memories with you.

Are the other GC who live near you a similar age? If so can you invite two sets of GC over at the same time so the cousins can play with each other?

What about older children? At what age do you think they can decide?

Only racist/xenophobic parents would be concerned with different culture. Especially in this case.
She is white Christian from a european country! Not a veiled Muslim woman from Saudi Arabia or a member of a remote Amazonian tribe, to expect some massive cultural clash

He was absolutely 100% correct wasn't he?

Absolutely this, excellent post.
All those posters assuming this, assuming that, and many not aware perhaps of accounts of adult children feeling very deprived of gp relationships throughout their childhood and early adulthood with no understanding of why and huge resentment of their own parents when sonetimes surorising truths are discovered. Try to nip it the bud now, OP, in the many practical ways suggested. There are also many posts on mn from parents, usually mums, feeling so hurt and 'disrespected' if partners' parents appear to be ignoring their gc's

The lack of clarity or insight on Op's part is staggering.

The judgment literally oozes out of the first post.

I wouldn't want to see her either.

It is interesting that of all the comments you choose to reply to it was the “ not a 24 hour journey”.
You have said NOTHING kind about your daughter in law , she is to you, your son’s wife . You have blamed her for the poor relationship you have with your son . With that attitude what did you really expect ? If you treated her like that wouldn’t she assume you would treat her children like that ?
With her own parents in a war torn country you had a golden opportunity to reach out and offer real support to her , your son and the children.
The fact is grown up children do not shut their wonderful, loving parents out of their lives . If you really want a relationship with your son and his family you will have to be the parent, step up and apologise for the way you have behaved .
Your son will always be your son but first and foremost he is a husband and a father , and I say that to you as the mother of two Ds .

I don’t think OP is coming back because this thread didn’t go in her favor. I know it is hard to process that you are the most wrong in a hurtful situation.

I’ve seen recommendations for a process to reunite with relatives you’ve distanced yourself and your nuclear family from. OP, or anyone in a similar situation, should use this same process to try and rebuild the relationship with her son and his family.

First, work on the relationship with your own child. Learn to treat them as a peer. Don’t give unsolicited advice or attempt to parent them in any way. Remember that they are an adult with their own family and capable of making their own decisions.

After you have mended the relationship with your child, ask your child if you can then work on building a relationship with their spouse. Remember that this is the person your child has chosen to build a life and family with. You may not agree with this decision, but it wasn’t yours to make. Treat their spouse well. Think of them as someone who makes your child happy. Allow them to take the lead in how close your relationship is. Again, don’t give unsolicited advice or try to act as a parent. Try to find a common interest with them.

Finally, once a respectful relationship is established with both parents, then try to have a grandparent relationship with the children. Don’t give advice or parent them. Follow their parents’ lead.

In order for this to work long term, you can’t rush or skip steps. It can take months to years to complete the process, depending on your willingness to change your behaviors and the level of trust your child feels towards you. If having a relationship with your grandchildren is important to you, you will be willing to do this. If having everything your way and on your timeline is more important, then you will need to learn to accept that you may never have a good relationship with them.

"We have always had issues with them, we weren't invited to the wedding, in fact we didn't know they were married until after the wedding happened! We had never met her."

And presumably those "issues" were you voicing your concerns about her motivation for wanting to marry him? Well, is it any wonder then that you weren't invited to the wedding? You made this comment about her without even having met her!
I'm afraid your DS has made a choice to stand by his wife and have minimal contact with you. I'm afraid you're going to have to live with his choice.

I’m confused, why would most mums be “Even more concerned if they are from a different culture”?

Maybe I’m on my own here but it wouldn’t cross my mind to be concerned about my child marrying someone from another culture.

I think the OP is getting a bit of a hard time here. Most mums of 30 year olds would be a bit concerned if they married someone who was 20. Even more concerned if they are from a different culture. And being concerned about your grandchildren going to Ukraine in the present climate is entirely rational!

However it sounds like it's your relationship with your son that has broken down here OP. I would concentrate on trying to rebuild that and be as accepting of his wife as you can. It must be very hard for her living over here, away from her friends and family, especially at such a young age - she must only be mid 20's now? Maybe your other son can shed some light on the situation?

From reading your replies and original post, the first act of distancing was done by your son when he chose to get married without telling you. You say he did this because he was worried about your judgement of his bride.

There has clearly been a rift between you, before his marriage that still exists. Your grandchildren visit their mother’s relatives because their mother is close emotionally with her relatives. You see little of your grandchildren because it’s your sons choice.

You probably won’t like the answer. All you can do is stop expressing judgement or giving advice to your son (or his wife). Stop showing up unannounced. Try to have a better relationship with your son by respecting him, showing an interest in his life & giving praise. You could work through these things with the therapist on your own. Once you’ve done work to change yourself, you could then have a brief conversation with him and express your regret that you aren’t closer and and let him know you accept things you’ve done in the past have caused this. It will take time to improve the relationship. Buying gifts and using guilt won’t do it good luck

Wow you are getting some seriously mean responses on this forum.
You are clearly hurt, upset and scared about the whole situation. I am so sorry that you are struggling with this.
I think it’s really hard for anyone who doesnt have access to everyone’s perspective on the situation to judge who is being unreasonable and who isn’t.
I think you feel the way you feel and people’s feelings are always important. Probably trying to find a way to understand what is going and why you are not getting to see your grandchildren is a good way to move forward.
i wonder how much a cultural divide might be exacerbating divisions between you and your son’s wife - honestly it could have everything to do with you and it could have nothing to do with you. She could be totally selfish and unfeeling and she could be deeply alienated and rejected or something else entirely.
Maybe starting with - I am feeling hurt and it’s understandable that I do. I wonder if she is too … let’s find out…?
I wish you and your family every good thing and hope you find a way through it. Big hugs.

When I said moved in, I should have said it was for the duration of our holiday. Slleping in our bed , going through our dirty clothes basket.She moved out when we returned. My husband had given her a key when we bought the house. 😡 Basically her children were afraid of offending her. If I said I didn't like this they just shrugged but never tackled her about anything. I could go on.

Also back to add: YOUR SON was the one who got married and didn't invite you. He clearly has an issue with you as well or you aren't important enough to invite... :/ why would she be blamed for a lack of respect. This falls on HIS shoulders. He is YOUR son.

Your son loves and protects his wife. His wife sees her country as safe enough to travel to and it is obviously worth the risk for her to be with her own family over yours. Your own family sounds like a war torn battle ground. You are the war lord. They clearly feel judged and do not want your disapproval and conditions and worry.

So what you do is this: write them both a text saying "Hey we would love to see you all! How about you come for an overnight stay this month? We will take care of the meals and everything else. Do the kids enjoy petting zoos?"

Ask her how her family is and keep your mouth shut otherwise

I disagree. Adult children have many reasons, some very valid, to distance themselves from their parents.

I also dislike it when GM/GF (it is mostly the women) who feel entitled to a relationship with grandkids when it is not warranted due to the frgile relationship with their adult child.

MANY of these women are interfering, focus too much on the GK, the lives of their adult children instead of their own.

I have my child really late-- mid/late 40's. I am not to far from 60, my kid is still little and have friends in their 60s whose children are in their 30's and they have kids. These women cannot talk about anything else, almost to the point of obsession which is uhealthy. It is like they never let their kids grow up (emotionally at least) at a healthy distance. I could not IMAGINE having a parent like that!!!!! I would do everything in my power to keep them away as it is so interfering.

My dad never, not once, asked me when I was going to have a family. And I asked him about that after I had my kid. He said it was none of his business, if I had a kid, great, and if I did not, great. And he for the most part is pretty respectful of my parenting (does not say anything) and is not overly encroached on my family's space.

I feel badly for the grown kids of some of the women in my circle. I could not manage the interfering, constant advice.... and I know not all do that. However it seems A LOT of women in particular do when there are GK.

Becoming a grandparent does not give you the right to interfere. And if your grown children are pushing you away, there is aq valid reason for doing so.

Loss of life of Ukrainians is an inevitable result of being at war. Similarly, the west didn’t create this situation but of course they’ll be pragmatic and engage in a way that best suits their interests. Ukraine is very aware that it is in the interests of the west to support them - and this has been something Zelensky has stressed when drumming up support - rather than the west is supporting them as a matter of moral principle. Do they like it? No, but again they will use as they can to further their own interests (in this case, funding and military support).

Westward expansion of Russia is not in the interests of the west, but nor is direct confrontation with Russia (see also the proxy ‘hot’ wars during the Cold War). An economically weakened and tired and depleted Russian military is in the interests of the west, as is civil unrest in Russia.

The principles apply to all politics.