Excluded from grandchildren's life

And you're even more ridiculous to point this out.

Every word out of your mouth is dripping with disdain for your son and his wife. Very telling that you weren't invited to the wedding over fear of judgement. I married a "foreigner" too and we didn't invite quite a few family members who'd said judgemental things about him, our relationship, how young we were, and the fact that he wasn't British. If you can't respect the marriage why the fuck would you be invited to the celebrations of said marriage?

Sorry OP but you reap what you sow and what you've sown here is judgement, contempt and arrogance. You basically accused his wife of being a goldigger, do you not see how that's insulting to both her and your son? Would you want that around your kids?

But surely you can see that despite your apology, she is likely to resent you for this, especially as you continue to offer unsolicited advice and judge her decisions as a mother?

I'd have bloody loved going on an overnight train as a kid. Actually I still would. What an adventure! Also, you sleep on the train, you get a bed and bedding- it's bot a 24 hour walk for the kids!

But same as PP, it's blindingly obvious why they're avoiding you. I'm willing to bet you kicked up a fuss when your son decided to stay on in Ukraine which will be where the problem started and why you didn't get a wedding invite...

lol well in this case it IS the woman’s fault.
just not the woman the OP believes it to be!

Always the bloody woman's fault.

Yup. It's funny, my oldest figured out natural consequences by the time he was four years old. OP is a bit behind, obviously!

You’ve driven them away by openly and repeatedly being judgmental about their relationship and parenting, and now you’re facing the natural consequences of your actions.

Op
There is no coming back from calling someone a gold digger . She is never going to like you. What you can do is take as much rope as your son allows you.
Post the gifts to the kids with a nice card .
Text your son with non pressure texts and take it from there. Putting pressure on them for visits etc will just annoy them and alienate them further .

Well if my son was in the same situation, of course I'd be concerned!!

She was very young, and they got married very quickly. I would have a discussion with my child too. Thing is, it's very delicate and you have to tread so carefully. Your son was well old enough to realise that a hasty marriage to a woman who was so young, and from a different culture had the potential to be problematic. And tbh if he was as mature as he was old, he should have understood why you were anxious about it.

Maybe you went too far - he was in love and he was not taking advice on board. At that point you should have accepted it - he was big enough and ugly enough to make his own mistakes and learn from them.

Not inviting you to their wedding was a huge "fuck you"!! Did you discuss this with him/them at the time? The damage is done; they know you don't approve of his choice of a wife, and if you wanted to mend fences then maybe you should have done that before they even had children. But instead, you've continued to question their decisions to the point of having angry rows with them. What has that achieved? Nothing. They are going to do what they want to do, as they should, and all you have done is push them even further away.

I don't blame you for being concerned. I defy any of the posters who've said horrible things to you to not have concerns if their 31 year old married a 21 year old whom he'd only known for 9 months!! Just like any of them would surely be anxious that the children are heading off to Ukraine with such a dangerous situation ongoing.

They don't want your concern - they have made that clear. And all the things you are blaming your DIL are failings on the part of your son. He is your blood relative, and it is up to him to foster his children's relationship with their grandparents. She is right to keep away. She knows you don't like her and that you disapprove of her. Would you want to spend time with such people?

The thing that makes me saddest about this is how even after behaving appallingly for a number of years, calling the woman he loves a gold digger and generally making his life difficult for no apparent reason, the OP’s only focus is on being excluded from the grandchildren
What about the poor son? I’d be absolutely heartbroken to end up with such a dreadful relationship with either of my amazing sons - yet this poor guy hasn’t even had a mention

And I agree that if anyone deserves judgment in that relationship it would be her son for getting together with a woman barely out of her teens.

It's very very clear why the OP has a poor relationship with her son and DIL and doesn't see her grandchildren.

I wouldn't put up with that shit either and would honestly choose a week in war-torn Kyiv with my loving family to an afternoon with my in-laws and all the judgment.

Right…I missed that comment 😂 Thanks for clearing that up!

We obviously don't know OPs tone and approach, but she is being flamed here for expressing concern in the early stages of DSs relationship. I do think there is a bit of a double standard here. If OP said my DD just met a man 10 yrs older from a different culture and wants to marry him before I even met him, the overwhelming response would be talk to your DD, set out your concerns etc.

Were you not concerned that your adult son had started a relationship with a woman barely out of her teens? The predatory behaviour is more likely to have come from him than her.

You clearly don't like your sons wife. He must realise this and it's probably at the root of the problems you're having.

Someone else has explained upthread that, whilst not ideal, the journey to Ukraine is not as severe of a risk as people would think.
Also calling your future DIL a young Eastern European gold digging conwoman is quite an insufferable thing to do.

Is there anything that mumsnetters don't know.

Thank you so much. I'll flipping well bookmark it this time.

That site reminded me a lot of my MIL and my SIL with her children. There are also parallels with the way OP speaks about her DIL with my personal experiences with those two.

When I first met DH, I was working full time in the day and had a part time evening job as a waitress in a gastro pub. She showed up one evening, with his sister and brother in tow, while I was on shift. She parked herself in the bar and summoned me, via my boss, to the bar from the lounge where I was working as the sole waitress. I nearly got bloody sacked over it. The next day I was informed, by DH, of her opinion of the ginger fat girl who looked common and must be after his money.

I was 18, size fourteen, five foot eight, strawberry blonde, fairly pretty, nicely dressed and earned more than him. I also lived in a house in a nice quiet area. She was a 63 year old, wrinkled short arse in high heels who dressed like the stereotype of a movie hooker, toothless, lifelong work dodger who lived in a council flat on an estate with a very bad reputation with her similarly work dodging single daughter and her two children by different men. Once I got a flat and let DH move in with me, I was taking advantage of him, keeping him away from her and I'd never manage to last "five minutes". She used to tell lies, put me down, attempt to drip poison in his ear and get money out of him every time he visited. She used to tell everybody how he kept coming to borrow money from HER and never giving it back. We borrowed £10, ONCE on a tuesday, and gave it her back on Friday of the same week. There's a lot more but I can't be arsed. My SIL was much the same with her DIL but, strangely, she didn't give a shit about her daughters husbands.

Can I ask why you think this is insufferable? OP is worried about her grandchildren’s safety, and for very very good reason?

You show up uninvited? How unbelievably rude - I would be “busy” too.

Your DIL wants to spend time with her family, just as you do with yours. I can absolutely see where you are coming from on this. but it's your son and DIL's decision.

This is all very good advice OP. You need to
learn how to keep your mouth shut.

We initially expressed some concern that this may be the case, it was from wanting protect DS rather than being prejudiced. When we were told we were wrong we apologised.

We never explicitly called her anything. We expressed concern that the relationship may not be built on honest motives, due to her age and back ground.

So you thought that she was too young, too foreign and out to take him for everything he had. It’s ok to think that and even feel concerned about it but it’s definitely something better kept to yourself. I don’t think there’s any coming back from that even if you did apologise. My, very eligible bachelor son gets married next month to a non British National that, I feel, he hasn’t known for all that long. Do I have concerns? Yes. What have I said? “Congratulations son, I hope you will both be very happy.” “Just remember, your dad and I will always have your back.”

We have always had issues with them, we weren't invited to the wedding, in fact we didn't know they were married until after the wedding happened! We had never met her. She clearly has no respect for our family but we try to keep the peace.

im not sure I would have much respect for people who considered me to be a gold digger.

if we show up uninvited on the weekend, they are always busy.

I have a good relationship with all my children but I wouldn’t show up uninvited (unless perhaps to drop something off) but not with the expectation of staying. It’s about boundaries.

We have had some big fall outs over decisions they make such as his wife continues to take their tiny children to a war torn country to visit her family, putting them through 24 hours of travel to get there and back!

Again, it’s ok to feel concerned, worried or whatever you feel. It’s not ok to voice it. It’s her family. She is going to want to keep in touch.

One of my closest friends has no relationship with her eldest son and his family. She is insistent that she has done nothing to upset them. I could write a very long list just from things she’s told me.

I’m not sure there is any way back for you from this but you could start by not criticising anything about their lives next time your son visits, with or without the children.

I’m wondering the same thing.

It isn’t a good look. Either the mother and father raised a son to be so weak-willed that he is easily controlled, they’re misogynist that thinks men can do no wrong and it is always the woman’s fault when he does or doesn’t do xyz even with an obvious power imbalance and/or narcissistic parents that their happiness and views trump that of their adult son.