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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be looking so differently now at Drs, schools etc etc

311 replies

Loveafridaynightchippy · 26/09/2024 22:11

Has anyone else had a change of opinion about things that they’ve not really questioned and always just accepted before, in the last few years?
It could be since a became a mum, but I’m wondering if it’s more.
My Dd has been very ill recently and I’ve gained much better help, advise from less traditional Drs-think medical Drs who focus on naturopathy too, homeopathy and so on, I never knew anything about homeopathy before my Dd got ill. The results I’ve seen are incredible and much more positive that traditional things like antibiotics, painkillers and so on.
I used to be a teacher and loved it, but I’ve found myself really questioning if this is the right system and the right way of doing things and am increasingly doubting traditional schooling. Even the way the majority of us work, the 9-5, the commutes, snatched weekends with loved ones, the yearly holiday.
Maybe I’m just becoming an old hippie! 😂
Does anyone else feel like this?

OP posts:
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7
mitogoshigg · 27/09/2024 19:00

Complimentary medicine is fine as long as it's complimentary, in addition to standard medicine. Real drs save lives

Mirabai · 27/09/2024 18:59

cardibach · 27/09/2024 18:34

None of those are part of the scientific community in the sense of being researchers. Also herbalist and Chinese medicines practitioners are not the same as homeopaths. Their alternative therapies contain active ingredients and there are scientific reasons they might work. Not so for homeopaths.

Edited

Medicine is an applied science, unless you specifically omit medical science from the scientific community.

There’s certainly a difference between material and non-material doses but acupuncture for example doesn’t fall under either.

nothingcomestonothing · 27/09/2024 18:54

PinkChaires · 27/09/2024 17:43

I agree to an extent. I obviously give my kids and myself actual paracetamol and any other meds they need, however recently my dd was diagnosed with pcos and doctor wanted to immediately put her on birth control. After a bit of research i found bc was just a band aid, and the homeopathy doctor recommended root burdock extract and inositol. They work- her acne has cleared and she had a bit of a period. Similarly, i have v v large fibroids and NHS do fuck all so hopefully the homeopathy may work

That's not homeopathy, I guess it's natural remedies. Homeopathy is when you dilute an ingredient past the point there's any left, then use the water because apparently the water remembers what used to be in it.

cardibach · 27/09/2024 18:34

Mirabai · 27/09/2024 17:18

What of the medical doctors who are also qualified Chinese medicine practitioners/homeopaths/herbalists?

None of those are part of the scientific community in the sense of being researchers. Also herbalist and Chinese medicines practitioners are not the same as homeopaths. Their alternative therapies contain active ingredients and there are scientific reasons they might work. Not so for homeopaths.

BunnyLake · 27/09/2024 18:06

Summerhillsquare · 26/09/2024 22:19

"Less traditional doctors" doing homeopathy - so not doctors then? Beware the grift OP, they are capitalising on the rationing and under funding of public services.

I agree with this. When I was very ill I tried the homeopathic route and boy did I regret it. Took myself to A&E and saw proper doctors. I dread to think how it would have panned out if I’d put all my faith in alternative medicine.

Mablesyruo · 27/09/2024 17:44

@DecayedStrumpet yes I had come across some discussion about that, seeing as gut health ,dietary factors and chronic inflammation can have impact on those with autism and also those with mood disorders it’s an interesting point you have made. autism.org/pans-updates/

PinkChaires · 27/09/2024 17:43

I agree to an extent. I obviously give my kids and myself actual paracetamol and any other meds they need, however recently my dd was diagnosed with pcos and doctor wanted to immediately put her on birth control. After a bit of research i found bc was just a band aid, and the homeopathy doctor recommended root burdock extract and inositol. They work- her acne has cleared and she had a bit of a period. Similarly, i have v v large fibroids and NHS do fuck all so hopefully the homeopathy may work

DecayedStrumpet · 27/09/2024 17:39

If you do come back to the thread, OP, I just wanted to say I'd wondered about DD having pandas before, as she had a lot of symptoms that fitted.

She's recently been diagnosed with autism and I think a lot of what was (and is) going on was anxiety stemming from that, the OCD type symptoms are fairly low at the minute. Obviously I'm not trying to diagnose your DD remotely, but it might be worth keeping an open mind to there being something else going on.
All the best

nothingcomestonothing · 27/09/2024 17:33

Loveafridaynightchippy · 27/09/2024 17:11

@nothingcomestonothing @GiddyRobin
Really unkind. You have no ideas of the struggles, I said nothing wrong in my opening post or ones after, I thought it was just an interesting discussion about something I’d found out through a situation I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy.
I seriously hope you’re never in this situation, I’m out, this was the last thing needed.

It's not unkind to say PANS/PANDAS is controversial and not a proven illness, that's literal fact. And it's not unkind to say homeopathy is just water, that's also literal fact.

I'm not disputing that you are struggling and seeking answers, I'm saying that the answers you've gone with have no evidence to support them. I'm sorry this thread hasn't gone the way you wanted but people do favour evidence in medicine.

Mablesyruo · 27/09/2024 17:31

pinkfleece · 27/09/2024 14:00

I think you'll find that all the NHS homeopathic hospitals now do other things, they don't do actual homeopathy, including that one in Glasgow. There will always be doctors who are guided by their wallets, sadly, those are the ones who offer homeopathy privately.

Edited

Nope ,that hospital still has homeopathy included amongst the available complementary therapies. The difference is that it’s part of a holistic therapeutic approach for people with long term conditions and that what’s can be helpful as it’s about the therapeutic relationship between staff and patients (which is what is often lacking or compromised in the high pressure,overloaded nhs where staff really often don’t have time to care ) www.nhsggc.scot/hospitals-services/main-hospitals/gartnavel-general/nhs-centre-for-integrative-care/

Mirabai · 27/09/2024 17:18

cardibach · 27/09/2024 17:03

Ok. All of the actual scientific community.

What of the medical doctors who are also qualified Chinese medicine practitioners/homeopaths/herbalists?

GiddyRobin · 27/09/2024 17:15

Loveafridaynightchippy · 27/09/2024 17:11

@nothingcomestonothing @GiddyRobin
Really unkind. You have no ideas of the struggles, I said nothing wrong in my opening post or ones after, I thought it was just an interesting discussion about something I’d found out through a situation I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy.
I seriously hope you’re never in this situation, I’m out, this was the last thing needed.

It's not unkind to discuss something that's medically controversial with a layer of cynicism.

No one is saying you've not been through the mill with it. But if you're going to talk about this sort of thing online, you're going to get people who are sceptical. It's not "unkind" to point these things out when even the medical world isn't accepting of it.

Loveafridaynightchippy · 27/09/2024 17:11

@nothingcomestonothing @GiddyRobin
Really unkind. You have no ideas of the struggles, I said nothing wrong in my opening post or ones after, I thought it was just an interesting discussion about something I’d found out through a situation I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy.
I seriously hope you’re never in this situation, I’m out, this was the last thing needed.

OP posts:
Cardiganoutsidein · 27/09/2024 17:07

Loveafridaynightchippy · 26/09/2024 22:25

@nothingcomestonothing She had them and they didn’t help the problem the same way homeopathy seems to be. I know, I never even knew or bothered about it before, but ur really does seem to be working.
Definitely not discounting traditional ways and obviously realise the importance of antibiotics etc-however, there are other ways alongside traditional methods and other doctors who seem to know much more about the link between the gut and the brain for example. A lot of traditional doctors don’t seem that knowledgeable about many things these days in my experience (I’m not in the U.K..could be this, I don’t know)

Homeopathy is doing nothing in itself to make you or your daughter feel better.

read Ben Goldacre’s view on this. It’s enlightening.

the reason homeopathy seems to be positively received by its ‘patients’ is because the average consultation is 1 hour- as opposed to 10 minutes at the GP.

it’s reckoned it’s a mix of placebo effect and just having someone listen to you sympathetically about your problems. These are interesting as it shows human connection can have a positive impact on health, but you may as well visit a kind grandmother for a chat.

cardibach · 27/09/2024 17:03

MissEsmeWatson · 27/09/2024 14:39

Not all of Mumsnet at all.

Ok. All of the actual scientific community.

Mirabai · 27/09/2024 17:02

Non-traditional medicine on the other hand can be effective, but also has more chance of going wrong.

Not sure that’s true - medical error is the third highest cause of death in the US.

cardibach · 27/09/2024 17:01

MissEsmeWatson · 27/09/2024 14:37

Shouting doesn't make you right, people!

Being right does though. And the person shouting ‘placebo effect’ is right.

GiddyRobin · 27/09/2024 16:59

nothingcomestonothing · 27/09/2024 16:56

OP said up thread it's PANS/PANDAS. A diagnosis Wikipedia describes as a controversial hypothetical diagnosis.

So an illness that possibly doesn't exist getting better from a treatment which has no active ingredients does kind of make sense

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PANDAS

Ah! I completely missed that.

Well, that makes a lot of sense then! I'd not come across this before. I suppose a placebo for something that might not be real to begin with might just do the trick.

cardibach · 27/09/2024 16:58

Outofthere · 27/09/2024 12:12

All of Mumsnet: It’s water. It’s fake. It’s placebo effect.

OP: No it’s not.

May I offer a cheaper miracle cure? A wet paper towel works wonders in most UK primary schools. Can be used for any bump or scratch, across the forehead for headaches, back of the neck for sickness.

Works best if it’s blue. True story.

nothingcomestonothing · 27/09/2024 16:56

GiddyRobin · 27/09/2024 16:42

A month of doctors not giving you answers, and you've been sold by the idea of homeopathic treatment. I might understand if this was after years of being tossed back and forth between doctors, never getting answers, and coming to a complete loss.

But a month doesn't even leave room for referals. Speaking to different clinics, researching different doctors, going on waiting lists. Even if you go private, things take time.

As another poster pointed out - perhaps the symptoms faded naturally in that time and may well flare up again. Continuing to pursue answers from a doctor in the meantime would be useful.

You've not told us what your daughter's illness was, nor the treatments you've tried both medical and non medical.

It's alright getting defensive, but you must know a lot of people are extremely cynical about these practices - and with good reason. You've not provided any proof of these medications working other than your daughter seemingly getting better during this time frame; which could be because of other medication she had previously been given or time. I'm assuming she's not being monitored by a proper doctor?

Edited

OP said up thread it's PANS/PANDAS. A diagnosis Wikipedia describes as a controversial hypothetical diagnosis.

So an illness that possibly doesn't exist getting better from a treatment which has no active ingredients does kind of make sense

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PANDAS

PANDAS - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PANDAS

TempestTost · 27/09/2024 16:55

Thepeopleversuswork · 27/09/2024 13:23

@TempestTost

I think you are too gentle on conventional medicine. It's not just that it can seem cold and impersonal, it can be practiced this way, it can be damaging, doctors can ignore the actual outcomes and health goals of patients.

Thats certainly true. There’s much that is structurally problematic about the infrastructure of health. There are well documented problems with resource. The medical establishment is conservative, patrician and doctrinaire. And actually accessing conventional medicine is really soul destroyingly difficult.

But the thread of your argument is really problematic. It pushes people to believe that quackery like homeopathy is a solution because patients feel like they are being “heard”.

Its really not OK. Feeling that the medical establishment doesn’t hear them should not be an excuse for people who are at best naive and scientifically illiterate and worst manipulative to sell useless and potentially dangerous products to sick people.

I understand the shortcomings of conventional medicine but this is a dangerous dichotomy and it drives more people to seek out this sort of nonsense.

Why is homeopathy not illegal? As far as I can tell it’s not even regulated. I think it’s an absolute scandal tbh.

Homeopathy in itself is pretty harmless as long as people don't forgo other treatments.

Non-traditional medicine on the other hand can be effective, but also has more chance of going wrong.

But I think the medical community has only itself to blame if people distrust them because the continuously seem to be supporting unscientific bollocks. I don't just mean poor practice by individuals, I mean actual bollocks spouted by medical institutions.

TempestTost · 27/09/2024 16:47

pinkfleece · 27/09/2024 11:36

As a GP, I'd love to spend time helping patients sort out their BP with diet and exercise, I'd love to have lots of consultations with my patients with MH issues and help them to slowly come off their drugs - I'm sure a lot of them could.

I don't have the time.
We are fire fighting.

Blame the politicians of every colour (Blair included, though everyone wrongly thinks he was a hero to the NHS) for that.

Taking a patient off of a bp drug having no effect isn't complicated.

GiddyRobin · 27/09/2024 16:42

Loveafridaynightchippy · 27/09/2024 16:36

@GiddyRobin What’s wrong with saying a month then?

A month of doctors not giving you answers, and you've been sold by the idea of homeopathic treatment. I might understand if this was after years of being tossed back and forth between doctors, never getting answers, and coming to a complete loss.

But a month doesn't even leave room for referals. Speaking to different clinics, researching different doctors, going on waiting lists. Even if you go private, things take time.

As another poster pointed out - perhaps the symptoms faded naturally in that time and may well flare up again. Continuing to pursue answers from a doctor in the meantime would be useful.

You've not told us what your daughter's illness was, nor the treatments you've tried both medical and non medical.

It's alright getting defensive, but you must know a lot of people are extremely cynical about these practices - and with good reason. You've not provided any proof of these medications working other than your daughter seemingly getting better during this time frame; which could be because of other medication she had previously been given or time. I'm assuming she's not being monitored by a proper doctor?

Loveafridaynightchippy · 27/09/2024 16:37

@GnomeDePlume Homeopathic.

OP posts:
GnomeDePlume · 27/09/2024 16:36

Loveafridaynightchippy · 27/09/2024 14:39

@RedToothBrush NOPE!

I truly hope that you’re never in a similar situation as us at present, but if so I recommend certain homeopathy pills over Ibuprofen for inflammation for example.

Is this alternative to ibuprofen genuinely homoeopathic in which case it is harmless or is it naturopathic/herbal?

There is far too much conflation of these quite different things on this thread.

As a warfarin patient I have to be hugely careful of taking/eating/drinking anything which will affect how warfarin operates. Get it wrong and the results could be catastrophic.