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Original poster

8 year olds school project gone wrong!

61 replies

AzureMantaRays · 26/09/2024 06:44

Firstly I would like to quickly explain that this is the first time I have ever posted, so apologies if I don’t explain myself fully or too much!

My son is 8 years old, his class are doing a project at school over the full term, where they design and then present a new “food or drink” product. They have been separated into small groups of 3/4 pupils. My son was really excited initially at the prospect and came home immediately designing some wacky and fun ideas…things like magic burping drinks and hotdog shaped crisps!

The next week he then returns home very upset as his group have chosen to design a fizzy pink wine drink for adults. He explained that only one child in the group had wanted this idea and that they had managed to dominate the discussion. We discussed ways he could promote his own ideas and ways he could encourage the group to be more democratic.

After a chat with my partner, (he is a GP and I am a social worker) I also then wrote to the teacher expressing my concern that firstly the group wasn’t hearing everyone’s voice, and secondly most importantly we had concerns how appropriate it is for 8 year old children to be thinking about and promoting alcohol.

The teacher replies stating that they had witnessed some of the groups discussion, that they thought it was a “sweet” idea and they didn’t think the children had intended for the wine drink to be alcoholic. They said if I wanted to discuss further to talk to them.

We agree with my son that he will go back to school and try to address it himself, talking to the other opposing members in the group (there are only 3 children..so the idea is only coming from one child) and making a new idea, going with the majority.

He came home yesterday so upset and crestfallen. He said that both he and the other group member had said they didn’t want this idea, however when the teacher asked the group to confirm their product she had spoken out first, so wine it is!!!

I feel that this is really unacceptable on a few levels, including what I consider a safeguarding issue. Yes children are aware of alcohol at age 8, they understand it’s for adults, however do I want my son thinking about it in such a positive and ill informed way! I think it’s a PSHE topic, which should obviously be approached but when they are older. I would much prefer his mind to be consumed with magic burping potions and hotdogs!!!

I really don’t know how to proceed. I don’t want to create any unnecessary pressure for my son, it’s not really his responsibility to police the group, I also don’t want to be that overly anxious “helicopter” parent…whatever that means!!!!

What do you think??? Would you be ok with it? Should I approach the teacher again? Should I encourage my son to go back and challenge it even though it might make him anxious? I’m in a bit of a pickle about this! All advice welcome please.

OP posts:
MumblesParty · 26/09/2024 08:30

JudgieJudie · 26/09/2024 07:52

(he is a GP and I am a social worker)
Is this why you think you are automatically right? Like the other children need to acquiesce to you and yours?

@JudgieJudie I think maybe you have a chip on your shoulder. The point of their jobs is that they have first hand experience in healthcare, damaging effects of alcohol, alcoholism, impact on children of alcohol abuse etc etc. In more detail than someone who works in banking might have.

CreateUserNames · 26/09/2024 08:28

AzureMantaRays · 26/09/2024 06:44

Firstly I would like to quickly explain that this is the first time I have ever posted, so apologies if I don’t explain myself fully or too much!

My son is 8 years old, his class are doing a project at school over the full term, where they design and then present a new “food or drink” product. They have been separated into small groups of 3/4 pupils. My son was really excited initially at the prospect and came home immediately designing some wacky and fun ideas…things like magic burping drinks and hotdog shaped crisps!

The next week he then returns home very upset as his group have chosen to design a fizzy pink wine drink for adults. He explained that only one child in the group had wanted this idea and that they had managed to dominate the discussion. We discussed ways he could promote his own ideas and ways he could encourage the group to be more democratic.

After a chat with my partner, (he is a GP and I am a social worker) I also then wrote to the teacher expressing my concern that firstly the group wasn’t hearing everyone’s voice, and secondly most importantly we had concerns how appropriate it is for 8 year old children to be thinking about and promoting alcohol.

The teacher replies stating that they had witnessed some of the groups discussion, that they thought it was a “sweet” idea and they didn’t think the children had intended for the wine drink to be alcoholic. They said if I wanted to discuss further to talk to them.

We agree with my son that he will go back to school and try to address it himself, talking to the other opposing members in the group (there are only 3 children..so the idea is only coming from one child) and making a new idea, going with the majority.

He came home yesterday so upset and crestfallen. He said that both he and the other group member had said they didn’t want this idea, however when the teacher asked the group to confirm their product she had spoken out first, so wine it is!!!

I feel that this is really unacceptable on a few levels, including what I consider a safeguarding issue. Yes children are aware of alcohol at age 8, they understand it’s for adults, however do I want my son thinking about it in such a positive and ill informed way! I think it’s a PSHE topic, which should obviously be approached but when they are older. I would much prefer his mind to be consumed with magic burping potions and hotdogs!!!

I really don’t know how to proceed. I don’t want to create any unnecessary pressure for my son, it’s not really his responsibility to police the group, I also don’t want to be that overly anxious “helicopter” parent…whatever that means!!!!

What do you think??? Would you be ok with it? Should I approach the teacher again? Should I encourage my son to go back and challenge it even though it might make him anxious? I’m in a bit of a pickle about this! All advice welcome please.

I think it is a good chance to learn about the real world. Learn the mistake, be upset, AND remember to speak up next time!

Luio · 26/09/2024 08:23

Group work is always a nightmare in school. The young ones get hugely enthusiastic and all want to be in charge and do everything. The older ones avoid contributing at all hoping that the most conscientious team member will come up with all the ideas and do the work. He will soon learn to save his enthusiasm for solo projects.

ChocolateCroissantCafe · 26/09/2024 08:22

I'm really surprised the teacher didn't pick up on that right away, it would have been so easy to laugh the wine part off immediately and say let's make that a fizzy juice - ok, next group, what's your idea. Now it's been allowed to carry on it's more awkward, isn't it. Not thinking for a moment that kids are unaware of alcohol, but having them come up with a product and think about how to promote it doesn't feel quite right.

GuestFeatu · 26/09/2024 08:17

bergamotorange · 26/09/2024 07:35

Confused It is a safeguarding concern as to the teacher's judgement and practice, as quite obviously teachers shouldn't be normalising drinking to young children.
Show quote history

Drinking is normalised. It's legal and very much normalised in the prevailing culture of the UK. In what way is the teacher harming the children by allowing this? Because that's what 'safeguarding' means. Protecting children from harm. And when we talk about harm, as social workers/teachers/other professionals we are talking about harm that meets the legal threshold for intervention. Safeguarding does have a specific meaning and scope. Where is the actual, measurable harm here?

ManhattanPopcorn · 26/09/2024 08:11

Wine is inappropriate, even if they specify alcohol free. It's no more appropriate than those sweets they used to sell that look like cigarettes.

I don't think any of my dss teachers would have been ok with that. They should have been steered away from alcohol.

notacooldad · 26/09/2024 08:04

I would be OK with it.
I would not have gone to the school and spoken to the teachers.
We discussed ways he could promote his own ideas and ways he could encourage the group to be more democratic.
This is good but I would have pointed out that he is going to meet people like this through out his life, especially at work, so he needs to practice how to handle them. This incident will help build his resilience and is a lesson on those that shout the loudest.

What about kids in families that don’t drink for religious/cultural reasons?
They aren't actually making it are they? If they are, then I wouldn't be so happy but if it's just designing and presenting then I'm fine with it.

I would leave it now. You've been in once complaining about him not being heard, to go in a second time complaining about what they doing is making it look like your stamping your feet because your son didn't get his own way. At least the girl who got her own way used her voice and not got her mum to do it for her.
Bravo to that girl for making sure she was heard!

parrotonmyshoulder · 26/09/2024 08:00

I would actually raise alcohol concerns, but not in a dramatic ‘ring the headteacher’ way. You could just speak to the teacher, and ask how’s she’s managing it. She may well be using it as a discussion point around romanticising and marketing of alcohol.
To be honest, I wouldn’t have allowed it as a teacher, but as a parent, I don’t think it’s a safeguarding or complaint level issue. an opportunity to show your child what YOUR family views and culture is, and how this might differ from others.

oakleaffy · 26/09/2024 07:59

JudgieJudie · 26/09/2024 07:52

(he is a GP and I am a social worker)
Is this why you think you are automatically right? Like the other children need to acquiesce to you and yours?

😂
I too thought that.

Loads of people would also think alcohol is a poor idea for children to be promoting as an exercise.

Probably the child who suggested it has wine drinking parents or it wouldn’t be on their radar.

Treeinthesky · 26/09/2024 07:56

I hope l you aren't trying to make the teacher pick your sons idea. Tell him young life isn't perfect and just because he is male doesn't mean he gets his ideas over everyone else.

SendMeHomeNow · 26/09/2024 07:55

AzureMantaRays · 26/09/2024 06:56

I’d like to add that had he returned and been upset the idea chosen wasn’t something like
alcohol / tobacco etc I wouldn’t have even considered challenging it. We would have just discussed team work / group dynamics etc.

the issue isn’t it’s not my sons idea. The problem is the alcohol bit…apologies I didn’t make this clearer.

Edited

That was clear to me OP. I absolutely agree with you that you should take this further. I’d encourage him to do his idea anyway as an extra project personally.

BrokenSushiLook · 26/09/2024 07:53

There are no bad consequences here for what happens if the project doesn't change. All that is really needed is that you insist the teacher makes sure it is specified to be an alcohol free drink in all the project materials.

Group design work is a normal thing and groups being dominated by one highly opinionated individual whose ideas are a bit rubbish is also goong to happen very frequently. It happened to my DC for a piece of GCSE coursework. It's brilliant that your DS is encountering this now. It will be helpful for him as he will start to develop the skills to avoid similar things happening again. In a few years time (I wouldn't expect 8 year olds to have these skills) he might have the confidence to guide the group discussion in a way that ensures everyone gets heard. Presumably other group members also had ideas thar never got taken up. Having this experience will be a long term benefit.

JudgieJudie · 26/09/2024 07:52

(he is a GP and I am a social worker)
Is this why you think you are automatically right? Like the other children need to acquiesce to you and yours?

AgainandagainandagainSS · 26/09/2024 07:50

Group projects/teamwork are very very hard OP, and this will be a steep learning curve for your son. Many grown adults struggle with it. But he will learn a lot about working with others and dealing with disappointment.

ThinkingUpsideDown · 26/09/2024 07:46

I would be unhappy about the alcohol aspect too. The teacher should have guided the group away from alcohol to something else, even if it was just a pink fizzy drink. I would keep perspective, however. The aim of the project is about teamwork, so whilst your son may be upset, there is still an opportunity for him to contribute ideas. It is possible that at the end of the project the idea will have evolved dramatically eg. "We had originally thought of making an alcoholic fizzy drink for adults but during our planning stage we noticed a gap in the market for celebration drinks for kids so we decided to make It alcohol-free. This new drink lets you do a mega burp because of the bubbles - an excellent party trick".
I would be encouraging him to use this opportunity to practice being assertive/advocating for himself.
I think you are right to be unhappy about the alcohol issue/especially after voicing concerns.

BoxOfCats · 26/09/2024 07:45

Well this is quite an interesting one for me, because my actual job is Head of Innovation in an alcohol company.

I would say it's very reflective of what can happen in the real world, so a very good learning opportunity for him!

doodleschnoodle · 26/09/2024 07:43

I was just thinking about butterbeer too!

doodleschnoodle · 26/09/2024 07:42

Are the kids actually aware that it's anything to do with alcohol? It sounds from what the teacher said that the name 'wine' is just being used as presumably they think it sounds grown up, not because it was intended to be alcoholic, and to all intents and purposes is just a fizzy pink drink and will be designed and marketed as such?

itsgettingweird · 26/09/2024 07:41

It's group work.

A group of 3.

Someone will have their idea used and others won't. If your ds idea had been used and another child hated it you wouldn't be so worried!

At 8yo there's always someone totally dominant and those who yet aren't ready enough to assert their one independence and ideas.

These dominant kids have a harder time in teens years when people are able to start standing up to them.

But I agree the idea of promoting something called wine isn't ideal but they read HP at this age and the kids drink butter beer so I don't think it's the end of the world.

BeMintBee · 26/09/2024 07:40

The problem is you complained that FIRSTLY your son’s voice wasn’t heard and then mention the the issue with them designing an alcoholic drink so anything you follow up with will look like your son has come home and stamped his feet about not getting his own way. You say it’s not really about the decision being all one persons but that is a big part of it in your post!

I think all you can do now is say that if the group are sticking with this idea it has just a pink fizzy drink and not called “wine” or that you are happy for your son to move group. I’m surprised the teacher isn’t realising it’s not appropriate I’m sure if they’d come up with something related to cigarettes she would have seen the issue!

bergamotorange · 26/09/2024 07:35

GuestFeatu · 26/09/2024 07:28

including what I consider a safeguarding issue

You're a social worker and you think children designing a wine drink is a safeguarding issue?? Which section of the children act does this fall under then? Come on.

Confused It is a safeguarding concern as to the teacher's judgement and practice, as quite obviously teachers shouldn't be normalising drinking to young children.
bergamotorange · 26/09/2024 07:32

The alcohol aspect IS an issue.

I would say I'm not happy for my child to design an alcoholic product and I want them to move group.

Copy in the head as the teacher needs more support.

GuestFeatu · 26/09/2024 07:28

including what I consider a safeguarding issue

You're a social worker and you think children designing a wine drink is a safeguarding issue?? Which section of the children act does this fall under then? Come on.

TheCoralDog · 26/09/2024 07:24

i think yes challenge the wine element. But they won't need up creating an alcopop design really will they? It'll just be fizzy pink drink. It's sad when he was so excited. Get him to design his own thing at home.

Also I think he needs to work on his assertiveness tbh. When she spoke up, that was his chance to raise his hand and say "actually no, we didn't agree on that. XX wants to do this idea but we don't agree so we are still undecided". With so many dominating children it's important for kids not to be pushovers.

Whyherewego · 26/09/2024 07:17

I'd agree that the wine element is inappropriate and given the teacher said you could get in touch if you still had concerns. I'd get in touch. It's not appropriate for children to be designing a product like that. If it was cigarettes would the teacher be OK? They are legal too. So I agree, fizzy pink drink but not a wine.