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Original poster

The Irony.. PM's donation was for ‘son to study for GCSEs’

392 replies

JustSpeechless · 25/09/2024 08:42

PM suggests £20,000 donation was for ‘son to study for GCSEs’ | The Independent

Sorry if there are other threads, but I did search and nothing came up.

“My boy, 16, was in the middle of his GCSEs. I made him a promise, a promise that he would be able to get to his school, do his exams, without being disturbed,” he told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme.

“But if you’re a 16-year-old trying to do your GCSEs and it’s your one chance in life – I promised him we would move somewhere, get out of the house and go somewhere where he could be peacefully studying.

So its OK for the PM to be worried about his child's "one chance" GCSE year being disturbed ...but he's not so worried about other people's children feeling stressed during their GCSEs by introducing the private school VAT during an academic school year.

I don't have a child in private school doing their GCSEs. And I know that there are lots of people who support the VAT and those who don't.

But I think there is a midline where lots of people on both sides of the fence agree making this change during an academic year is not fair on the kids in key exam years...and I am one of them because not all parents have a Lord Alli to step in to ensure their child's "one chance" GCSE year is not being disturbed.

For Voting:

Unreasonable - I am with Keir and I am not really bothered with other people's children's "one chance" school year being interrupted.

Not Unreasonable - I agree Labour should not interrupt the academic school year and introduce the VAT in September 2025.

PM suggests £20,000 donation was for ‘son to study for GCSEs’

The Prime Minister signalled he could continue to accept hospitality gifts from donors.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/keir-starmer-prime-minister-gcses-mps-government-b2618505.html

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
RobinEllacotStrike · 25/09/2024 15:01

someone "offers" him temporary accommodation for £20,000??

And this man is running the UK? Gawd help us.

Leniriefenstahl · 25/09/2024 15:01

Never known such a disgruntled shower of opposition party activists posters ? Their ‘team’ had 14 years to sort stuff out. They didn’t. Actually wondering whether they are mainly Faragists rather than Tories. What with all the nicknames for Starmer dragged over from SM.
Funnily enough this is all reminiscent of Trump’s stubborn denial that Bidden won the election, there’s a repeated theme on certain websites that Starmer didn’t win, the Tories lost, he’s not our rightful PM. Really makes you wonder who really wants to drag the UK into chaos. Surely if you’re a loyal Brit you want the best for your country.

Leniriefenstahl · 25/09/2024 14:54

@Alltheprettyseahorses Really ? You’ve got a pretty low bar of tolerance for labour and a mountainous one for the tories. Did you give a toss about Johnson back in the day ? And reading previous posts you’re not exactly neutral are you ?
How will you cope with ‘honest’ Jenrick when he’s elected opposition leader ?

Bollihobs · 25/09/2024 14:53

iNoticed · 25/09/2024 10:38

I think the difference between Keir and previous Conservative MPs is that Keir believes he’s in the right.

Plenty of people don’t have undisturbed places for their 16 year olds to revise, plenty will be disturbed by VAT, plenty have their job options limited by their kids’ education. But Keir’s “boy” is better than them. It would’ve been fine for Keir to PAY for his son to go an AirBnB to study, it didn’t need to be a gift.

What should be happening is a reflection that all this gift giving is wrong to any MP and he should hold his hands up and change the rules. He cannot possibly be an independent politician while he is getting this level of personal funding from donors. At my work, I have to refuse any gift of over £50 (colleagues have had to throw unsolicited hampers straight in the bin if the cost more than this) for fear of bribery or impaired independence. And I don’t have any sort of political role.

If Lord Alli asked Keir to act against his morals or manifesto, could Keir hand on heart say he’d be true to the cause knowing it would mean he could, say, never go to watch Arsenal again or his son’s A Levels might be impacted by journalists, or his wife’s designer wardrobe would stop? I honestly don’t think he could make an unbiased choice in that scenario. So the gifts should stop, like they’re stopped for the rest of the UK.

Edited

I think that's exactly right.

People do, or did, think that Labour wouldn't be like this, that they'd be better than that. But Free Gear Keir, his wife and the rest of his cohorts have sadly proved that theory wrong in record time.

To be honest I think it's shocked most people no matter how much we say "oh they're all same" . 😕

BIossomtoes · 25/09/2024 14:50

Bollihobs · 25/09/2024 14:45

Perhaps if his father and the rest of the Cabinet hadn't accepted £800,000 in freebies and gifts THIS YEAR, the journos wouldn't be there or be hostile in the first place.

Show quote history

They didn’t. That figure is over five years. 🤷‍♀️

89redballoons · 25/09/2024 14:46

JustSpeechless · 25/09/2024 14:42

Still not most! How can you make a sweeping comment about thousands of parent's disposal income - without any stats to back it up - and maintain your perception is right? Its just not logical.

Show quote history

It is completely ogical to assume that a majority of private school parents have a decent amount of disposable income - because they can afford to send their children to private school. By definition that is something that is normally only an option for people with a really decent amount of disposable income, or else help from family, or savings.

Do you have any statistics on hand to show that most private school parents are living month to month with no plan in place for funding the next year's fees?

Bollihobs · 25/09/2024 14:45

Imperfectionist · 25/09/2024 09:10

This is a false equivalence.

And it is not easy to be the teenage son of the Prime Minister, studying for your GCSEs but also trying to make sense of life when you have hostile journalists and photographers outside your front door, day and night.

Perhaps if his father and the rest of the Cabinet hadn't accepted £800,000 in freebies and gifts THIS YEAR, the journos wouldn't be there or be hostile in the first place.

Original poster
JustSpeechless · 25/09/2024 14:42

89redballoons · 25/09/2024 14:39

I said most, not all (twice).

Show quote history

Still not most! How can you make a sweeping comment about thousands of parent's disposal income - without any stats to back it up - and maintain your perception is right? Its just not logical.

OP posts:
safarileader · 25/09/2024 14:40

i’m guessing Reform

89redballoons · 25/09/2024 14:39

JustSpeechless · 25/09/2024 14:37

I think maybe you might now get the point of some private school parents with SEN kids - your notion that all private school parents have so much money they have access to funds meant for future years is just very very wrong.

Show quote history

I said most, not all (twice).

Original poster
JustSpeechless · 25/09/2024 14:37

89redballoons · 25/09/2024 14:33

I don't at all, my kids are at local state primary school/preschool and i couldn't afford the fees for the school I went to myself now. But most private school parents with children in Y11 will by definition have a lot of money and will have budgeted somehow for school fees up until the end of Y13. One or both of these options will likely be available to them, if they find themselves unable to pay 6th form fees plus VAT.

This is all getting very theoretical but the point is that the original post is a straw man. Kier Starner isn't trying to disrupt a load of children's GCSE years while protecting his own son's GCSE study period, because putting VAT on private school fees won't mean that most children currently in Y11 at private schools will have to move schools because of the VAT. * *

Show quote history

I think maybe you might now get the point of some private school parents with SEN kids - your notion that all private school parents have so much money they have access to funds meant for future years is just very very wrong.

OP posts:
89redballoons · 25/09/2024 14:33

JustSpeechless · 25/09/2024 14:23

You have a lot of money if you can do what you are saying you would do - not everyone is as liquid / has a great credit rating as you clearly do!

"If that VAT made it unaffordable for me to send my child to the same school up until the end of year 13, I'd just pay the VAT on the year 11 fees from the money I had earmarked for year 12 and year 13 fees. If I was paying school fees out of income rather than capital then worst comes to worst, I'd put the VAT element of the year 11 fees on an interest free credit card or take out a low interest loan for it and pay it off while my child was in year 12. That would still be much less than the school fees I'd have been planning to pay up until this year. I would thereby avoid disruption to my child's GCSE year."

Show quote history

I don't at all, my kids are at local state primary school/preschool and i couldn't afford the fees for the school I went to myself now. But most private school parents with children in Y11 will by definition have a lot of money and will have budgeted somehow for school fees up until the end of Y13. One or both of these options will likely be available to them, if they find themselves unable to pay 6th form fees plus VAT.

This is all getting very theoretical but the point is that the original post is a straw man. Kier Starner isn't trying to disrupt a load of children's GCSE years while protecting his own son's GCSE study period, because putting VAT on private school fees won't mean that most children currently in Y11 at private schools will have to move schools because of the VAT. * *

DonnaBanana · 25/09/2024 14:28

Isn't it funny they can get paid all this stuff because of their job but then pay no tax on it? Pay the taxes on it Keir and no one will care less

hoglets · 25/09/2024 14:27

he is a complete self entitled and tone deaf clown. How we ended up with him. My DC cannot attend school due to crippling anxiety and depression and an (yet undiagnosed) ASD as there is no provision. Is one rule for them, and another for the rest of us.

Original poster
JustSpeechless · 25/09/2024 14:23

89redballoons · 25/09/2024 14:13

Give over.

If I had put my child into private school in year 7 or year 9 (or whenever), I'd have budgeted and planned for how I was going to pay their school fees up until the end of year 13. Let's say that child is in year 11 now and VAT is imposed on school fees from January, and the school passed the VAT cost on to all parents immediately.

If that VAT made it unaffordable for me to send my child to the same school up until the end of year 13, I'd just pay the VAT on the year 11 fees from the money I had earmarked for year 12 and year 13 fees. If I was paying school fees out of income rather than capital then worst comes to worst, I'd put the VAT element of the year 11 fees on an interest free credit card or take out a low interest loan for it and pay it off while my child was in year 12. That would still be much less than the school fees I'd have been planning to pay up until this year. I would thereby avoid disruption to my child's GCSE year.

The majority of private school families with children in exam years will be able to afford to do this or something similar. Some private schools have hardship funds for children whose families suddenly can't afford their fees; that might be helpful in some cases within that minority. I'd hope the parents in such cases would have these conversations between themselves and with the school and work out a plan before worrying their children in GCSE year with "family conversations" about money.

Yes, some children will have to move schools after year 11 and they might be anxious about that, but it's not hugely unusual. 20 years ago my husband was on an assisted place at a private school up until the end of year 11, when he had to move to a state sixth form college. He did fine. Several of his friends moved with him and he made new friends too.

Show quote history

You have a lot of money if you can do what you are saying you would do - not everyone is as liquid / has a great credit rating as you clearly do!

"If that VAT made it unaffordable for me to send my child to the same school up until the end of year 13, I'd just pay the VAT on the year 11 fees from the money I had earmarked for year 12 and year 13 fees. If I was paying school fees out of income rather than capital then worst comes to worst, I'd put the VAT element of the year 11 fees on an interest free credit card or take out a low interest loan for it and pay it off while my child was in year 12. That would still be much less than the school fees I'd have been planning to pay up until this year. I would thereby avoid disruption to my child's GCSE year."

OP posts:
Original poster
JustSpeechless · 25/09/2024 14:17

Well it sounds like you might then be mixing with the very rich and wealthy - and its likely you are one of those parents whose children are not going to be effected because you can easily pay and are happy to.

If you really want to know my political leaning - I'm a child of an immigrant mother, we were so poor growing up we didn't have enough food to eat...so I have voted Labour for most of my voting adult life (30 plus years) because I believe that everyone should have a decent standard of living: I am happy to pay more taxes for better schools, for the NHS, for teachers, families with disabled children, the elderly and anyone else who struggles to achieve a decent standard of living.

But I also have a strong moral compass for what is right and fair - and I think the government should charge all of us more tax for improved education...targeting private school parents, many of whom have used the private school system to help their children with SEN needs, just feels wrong to me.

Did I vote for Keir recently? No, I think Keir's a plonker. But I also think Boris Johnson is a plonker too if that helps.

OP posts:
89redballoons · 25/09/2024 14:13

JustSpeechless · 25/09/2024 13:49

That’s not actually true - each and every private school family will be having family conversations about whether they can afford the vat / or are prepared to pay the vat and what their options are if they can’t or don’t want to. And thousands of private school children will be wondering if their place in school, where they have settled and made friends, will be disrupted and they will feel anxious about whether they might be expected to move. And there have been private school closures due to the Vat coming in.

Some kids would have moved during key exam years - some kids will have to move during key exam years.

Some will be doing their GCSEs knowing whatever outcome they have they might need to move schools for 6th form.

And the government school kids will have new children in their class mid-year - children who might need extra teacher support because that child as working under a different time table and/or exam board. And if the teacher if helping this new pupil than the other existing kids will get less attention.

Any decent parent knows it’s best to avoid disruption during any school year - but as Keir himself knows disruption during key exam years is to be avoided.

I like what one other poster said above - Keir’s son could have studied in the library like other children with busy homes do.

Show quote history

Give over.

If I had put my child into private school in year 7 or year 9 (or whenever), I'd have budgeted and planned for how I was going to pay their school fees up until the end of year 13. Let's say that child is in year 11 now and VAT is imposed on school fees from January, and the school passed the VAT cost on to all parents immediately.

If that VAT made it unaffordable for me to send my child to the same school up until the end of year 13, I'd just pay the VAT on the year 11 fees from the money I had earmarked for year 12 and year 13 fees. If I was paying school fees out of income rather than capital then worst comes to worst, I'd put the VAT element of the year 11 fees on an interest free credit card or take out a low interest loan for it and pay it off while my child was in year 12. That would still be much less than the school fees I'd have been planning to pay up until this year. I would thereby avoid disruption to my child's GCSE year.

The majority of private school families with children in exam years will be able to afford to do this or something similar. Some private schools have hardship funds for children whose families suddenly can't afford their fees; that might be helpful in some cases within that minority. I'd hope the parents in such cases would have these conversations between themselves and with the school and work out a plan before worrying their children in GCSE year with "family conversations" about money.

Yes, some children will have to move schools after year 11 and they might be anxious about that, but it's not hugely unusual. 20 years ago my husband was on an assisted place at a private school up until the end of year 11, when he had to move to a state sixth form college. He did fine. Several of his friends moved with him and he made new friends too.

nearlylovemyusername · 25/09/2024 14:06

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster.

some of the parents won't notice.

A lot will do.

I was forced to move my happily settled SEN DC from their private to state. They are really struggling with class size and environment in general.
Thanks to Free Gear Keir.

Edited to add - we're still "lucky" that I made them sit grammar exam last year and kept the place just in case. That "just in case" spared them from going to a sink secondary local to us. Many other private kids aren't so lucky.

But yeah, Starmer Junior deserves penthouse for his GCSE prep.

Clavinova · 25/09/2024 14:04

Sarahconnor1 · 25/09/2024 10:40

I don't entirely buy starmers explanation

This is the declared donation

Accommodation, value £20,437.28Date received: 29 May 2024 to 13 July 2024

Don't GCSEs start early May and end towards the end of June?

GCSEs finished 19th June.

bubblebub1 · 25/09/2024 13:59

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster.

bubblebub1 · 25/09/2024 13:58

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster.

Original poster
JustSpeechless · 25/09/2024 13:57

ssd · 25/09/2024 10:15

This. Its tiresome.

Show quote history

I reposted Keir’s direct quotes - it’s what he said that painted a picture of who he is - not me.

OP posts:
Clavinova · 25/09/2024 13:51

Nottodaythankyou123 ·
And the £100k Keir figure is 2019-2024, so the vast majority of that was before he was leader so it’s irrelevant. The £6.4m was also 2019-2024 so a lot of that was whilst Boris was PM.

You are comparing apples with pears. The amount quoted for Boris Johnson obviously includes secondary earnings e.g.

Shock and awe in Britain as it is announced that Boris Johnson's extra-curricular earnings, since he left office in September, are approaching £5m.
https://www.newstatesman.com/thestaggers/2023/02/boris-johnson-earning-5-million-corruption-conspiracy

Plus the £1m donation to Johnson's office -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64257007

Whereas the £100k you are quoting for Keir Starmer clearly doesn't include secondary earnings or donations to his office e.g. a selection from Starmer's leadership campaign:

Name of donor: Robert Latham
Address of donor: private
Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £100,000 for my campaign for leadership of the Labour Party
Date received: 2 January 2020

Name of donor: Clive Hollick
Address of donor: private
Amount of donation, or nature and value if donation in kind: £25,000 for my campaign for leadership of the Labour Party
Date received: 23 January 2020

Name of donor: Martin Taylor
Address of donor: private
Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £95,000 for my campaign for leadership of the Labour Party
Date received: 12 February 2020

Name of donor: Waheed Alli
Address of donor: private
Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £100,000 for my campaign for leadership of the Labour Party
Date received: 24 February 2020

Name of donor: Trevor Chinn
Address of donor: private
Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £50,000 for my campaign for leadership of the Labour Party
Date received: 26 February 2020

Name of donor: Ecotricity Group Ltd
Address of donor: Lion House, Rowcroft, Stroud GL5 3BY
Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £20,000 for my campaign for leadership of the Labour Party
Date received: 27 February 2020

Name of donor: USDAW
Address of donor: 188 Wilmslow Road, Manchester, M14 6LJ
Amount of donation, or nature and value if donation in kind: £25,000 for my campaign for leadership of the Labour Party
Date received: 27 February 2020

(there are loads more - £25k, £12k, multiple £10k and £5k...)
https://www.parallelparliament.co.uk/mp/keir-starmer/financial-disclosure

Putting · 25/09/2024 13:51

Some will be doing their GCSEs knowing whatever outcome they have they might need to move schools for 6th form.

A lot of children have to move schools for 6th form. Quite a few state schools don’t even have 6th forms.