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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not know whether the school are at fault in how they dealt with my 16 year old and 10 months old very academic but immature Autistic daughter after she acted out due to her disabilties.

218 replies

Battlehorse · 24/09/2024 21:47

DD is an extremely bright 16 year old who obtained 9 grade 9 s at GCSE this year. However, despite being academically very able feel is emotionally immature for Sixth Form. This in no small part due to her autism, meaning at times she can exhibit emotional outbursts that can not be predicted or mitigated for.

The school my daughter attends is a girls grammar school which highlights achievements of its pupils in magazines, newsletters and in the local media . This meaning in August, the school took the obligatory pictures of their high attaining pupils getting their GCSE results and putting the pictures in the September/ October newsletter.

DD who is very unsure of herself or her self worth, viewed the newsletter online.
This caused her huge emotional distress which led to her swearing at the head of Sixth form and running out of school in a state of anguish. The school have told her to stay home until Thursday. DD called me on her phone outside the school premises to pick her up today.

I can't help thinking the school in printing her name and picture and encouraging her to take 4 A Levels have not taken in to account her learning disabilities. This totally against my wishes for her that she takes no more than 3 A Levels and also be allowed three years for her Sixth Form study.

The school have been aware of her Autism diagnosis since she was 13. However, due to her high academic ability she does not have an EHCP, though the school previously have acknowledged they have a duty of care. This being the reason why a unofficial two day stay at home notice has been given, rather than as a potential suspension sanction against her.

OP posts:
TeatimeForTheSoul · 24/09/2024 22:41

FS90 · 24/09/2024 21:50

Autism isn’t a learning disability. What have the school said when you’ve met with them to discuss support planning for your daughter? It sounds as though they’ve been reasonable giving her two days to decompress at home, being clear that this isn’t a suspension

It looks like OP mistook the words as her DD clearly doesn’t fit the criteria of learning disability but is likely to have learning difficulties

Battlehorse · 24/09/2024 22:41

I'm fully aware that Autism is not a free pass for difficult traits to be exploited. This having grown up with the full non diagnosed set of Autistic disabilities and co related issues of social maturity in the less accepting times of the 1980's.

OP posts:
MultiplaLight · 24/09/2024 22:38

Then the DD needs other strategies for when she loses emotional control than swearing at people. Fidgets, calm space, screwing up or ripping paper, a safe member of staff, a punch bag (literally) are all possible options and strategies. Amongst many others.

If it was bad enough for her to need to be sent home, I guess it wasn't just a one off swear but ongoing language in the outburst.

TeatimeForTheSoul · 24/09/2024 22:38

@Battlehorse was it the photo which caused distress? Or was it the mention by school of doing 4 A’levels when you DD had agreed to do 3? If it’s the change in number of A levels then any staff who know your daughter should surely have understood that change would cause her distress.

TeatimeForTheSoul · 24/09/2024 22:35

MimiGC · 24/09/2024 22:18

At her age, she needs to learn either to control herself or to accept that there will be consequences if she can't. The school hasn't officially suspended her, so that is a reasonable adjustment.
Usually the post-exam photos of high achieving pupils aren't photos the school has on file, they are taken on results day. If your daughter didn't want to be in the photo, she should have declined and that should have been respected.
If she doesn't want to do 4 A levels, she doesn't have to. The school can't make her. Help her to speak up for herself.

@MimiGC it seems you do not completely understand female presentation autism. It can mean that an individual is unable to behave with neurotypical emotional control. As autism is a developmental delay some skills may be learnt over a lifetime, some may not. Everyone is individual
It’s the equivalent of saying because you posted about autism without understanding it you should be suspended from mumsnet. That would be unfair. The situation should just be explained to you with compassion.

WindsurfingDreams · 24/09/2024 22:34

MimiGC · 24/09/2024 22:32

@notanothernamechange24 No, I didn't miss it, I said that, at nearly 17, she needs to learn to control herself. Not be perfect at it yet, but this could be part of the process of her learning. It's not all at like saying that a wheelchair user should learn to walk- unless you're saying autistic people literally can't control their behaviour?

I agree, and as a wheelchair user I found that comment weirdly unsettling.

Using a wheelchair doesn't affect or cause distress in others, not is it disrespectful or abusive to use a wheelchair

Swearing at people is rude, and can be abusive or cause huge distress.

The two aren't remotely analogous

Serencwtch · 24/09/2024 22:33

crumblingschools · 24/09/2024 22:27

Is that an unlawful exclusion?

No but reasonable consequences for swearing at a teacher.

DoggoQuestions · 24/09/2024 22:33

@BBattlehorse

They've decided not to call it a suspension, not for your daughter's benefit but because they know they'd be hauled over the coals if you went to the governors because it would be an illegal suspension/disability discrimination.

They will now play it as, they've made a suggestion and you've agreed.

www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/education/exclusions/exclusion-england/suspension

MimiGC · 24/09/2024 22:32

@notanothernamechange24 No, I didn't miss it, I said that, at nearly 17, she needs to learn to control herself. Not be perfect at it yet, but this could be part of the process of her learning. It's not all at like saying that a wheelchair user should learn to walk- unless you're saying autistic people literally can't control their behaviour?

FritataPatate · 24/09/2024 22:31

To answer your question - no, the school are not at fault.

WindsurfingDreams · 24/09/2024 22:31

notanothernamechange24 · 24/09/2024 22:25

@MimiGC did you miss the part where the OP repeatedly says her daughter has Autism? It's not a simple as just 'managing her emotions' when that is a fundamental part of her disability!

It's a bit like saying you're going to punish a wheelchair user for not being able to walk well.

She can't always manage her emotions well.

If she is wants to have a successful adult life with a career and relationships then yes she does need to.
Autism isn't a free pass to treat people with disrespect.

(I and most of my family have autism)

Harvestfestivalknickers · 24/09/2024 22:30

How is your DD now? Do you think her outburst was because she feels overwhelmed with the change from high school to sixth form and A levels? Do you think the newsletter was the trigger?
I don't think the school handled it badly - it's unacceptable to have children swearing at teachers. I would talk to her and try to get to the bottom of it.

AGirlInACountrySong · 24/09/2024 22:28

NinetyNineRedBalloonsGoBy · 24/09/2024 22:08

Should the teacher just accept being sworn at?

Do you get sworn at at work and expected to accept it due to disabilities?

Hell no! Nobody swears at me and goes unchallenged in this life

Fully agree

crumblingschools · 24/09/2024 22:27

Is that an unlawful exclusion?

Battlehorse · 24/09/2024 22:26

Author: Polly, 17
Topics mentioned: autism and mental health, friends
About: Polly explains her journey to a diagnosis of autism and shares tips for how to look after your mental health at school if you are autistic.

School can be a challenging place to manage for most people, and when you’re autistic it can be even harder. Growing up I always felt different, like an outsider; I didn’t understand imaginary games, I would get so confused when someone would tell me to do one thing but expect something entirely different, and the fire alarm would physically hurt and make my arms prickle.
In secondary school this got worse - everywhere was so big and noisy, friendships got more confusing and people started dating. I loved the routine of school, and the learning, but I couldn’t manage everything else. In Year 8, I would hide in the history cupboard because it was quiet, small and dark - in my mind, safe.

f you have to leave education, it’s not the end of the world. There are different routes into education and a multitude of opportunities in the job world. For example, a normal A-level programme is two years, but I am doing mine over three years to make it more manageable.
Autism isn’t a barrier and there are so many tips and tricks to help make your school days accessible.

I understand that it is unusual for A Levels to be taken over three years but it is not impossible.

The paragraphs are from Young Minds

Surviving School On The Autistic Spectrum | Blog | YoungMinds

Autism and Mental Health | Signs & Symptoms of Autism

Autism - or autism spectrum disorder (ASD) - affects how you see the world and how you interact with other people. Find out the symptoms and get help.

https://www.youngminds.org.uk/young-person/mental-health-conditions/autism-and-mental-health/

OP posts:
HotPotato123 · 24/09/2024 22:25

My son is autistic and with actual learning disabilities (GDD and dsylexia) and I would not stand for him swearing at teachers, it’s not ok,

I think the school have dealt with this well.

notanothernamechange24 · 24/09/2024 22:25

MimiGC · 24/09/2024 22:18

At her age, she needs to learn either to control herself or to accept that there will be consequences if she can't. The school hasn't officially suspended her, so that is a reasonable adjustment.
Usually the post-exam photos of high achieving pupils aren't photos the school has on file, they are taken on results day. If your daughter didn't want to be in the photo, she should have declined and that should have been respected.
If she doesn't want to do 4 A levels, she doesn't have to. The school can't make her. Help her to speak up for herself.

@MimiGC did you miss the part where the OP repeatedly says her daughter has Autism? It's not a simple as just 'managing her emotions' when that is a fundamental part of her disability!

It's a bit like saying you're going to punish a wheelchair user for not being able to walk well.

She can't always manage her emotions well.

miniaturepixieonacid · 24/09/2024 22:23

She's over 13 so needs to give her own permission for photos of her to be posted on social media. Parents can give blanket permission for younger children but 13+ should always be asked personally on a photo by photo basis. Or at least, that's the policy in the school I'm in. I think the school are at fault here and your daughter's outburst, while unfortunate, is not her fault. I don't think she should serve a sanction. The head of 6th form should meet with her, apologise for using her picture without permission and get an apology from her for swearing at her and leaving school in school hours.

Porcuine20 · 24/09/2024 22:21

I think it wholly depends on whether you’ve given photo consent or not. If not, you have grounds for complaint that photos were published without permission; if you have given photo consent at some point, then the school have done nothing unreasonable - it’s common to publicly celebrate high achievers (would she have preferred to be overlooked/not mentioned?). The school sound like they’ve been pretty reasonable in their response to her outburst. Being autistic isn’t an excuse for swearing at a teacher (I’m autistic, as is one of my children) - she might not have control over her emotions, but she does have control over her language and I’d be having some serious talks about appropriate language and treating people with respect.

dapsnotplimsolls · 24/09/2024 22:20

You need to check the school photo policy - that's on you if you've agreed to it at some point. A levels in 3 years? Nope. You need to ask for a meeting before she goes back to discuss her needs, preferably with the SENDco.

MultiplaLight · 24/09/2024 22:18

notanothernamechange24 · 24/09/2024 22:16

@MultiplaLight so because you haven't heard of it it doesn't exist? 🤔

I've worked in 4 sixth forms and 2 colleges. Hardly inexperienced and never seen it as a routine arrangement, only in response to resit needs.

Where offers it as standard?

lolly792 · 24/09/2024 22:18
  1. Staff have the right to not have students swear at them. Autism isn't a free pass to be verbally aggressive to others

  2. Presumably your daughter wants to do 4 A levels. If she's expressed that wish and is supported in it by her teachers then that's her choice not yours

  3. as already explained, the logistics of doing A levels over 3 years is impossible in a regular school. Do you expect 1:1 teaching, adapting 2 years of content into 3 years? Because for a very able student, just repeating a year would be pointless and probably dull.

  4. the photo thing is simple- if you gave consent then the school have done nothing wrong.

MimiGC · 24/09/2024 22:18

At her age, she needs to learn either to control herself or to accept that there will be consequences if she can't. The school hasn't officially suspended her, so that is a reasonable adjustment.
Usually the post-exam photos of high achieving pupils aren't photos the school has on file, they are taken on results day. If your daughter didn't want to be in the photo, she should have declined and that should have been respected.
If she doesn't want to do 4 A levels, she doesn't have to. The school can't make her. Help her to speak up for herself.

RitzyMcFee · 24/09/2024 22:16

I don't see what the school have done.

They presumably had permission for the photo to go in the newsletter.

It's not up to you how many A levels she does. That's a decision for your dd and the school.

They can't teach three or four A levels over three years instead of two. It's not practical.

She's been suspended due to her behaviour.

Gazelda · 24/09/2024 22:16

Moving from Y11 to 6th form can be an enormous leap, in my experience. Students are expected to be far more independent than previously. Take more responsibility for their learning and their decisions.

It's difficult that your DD isn't yet ready for this adjustment. I understand how this has distressed her. However I don't see how school have been at fault.

Presumably you've given permission for her photo to be used, possibly back in Y7.

It's your DD's decision to take 4 ALevels. If you felt it was a bad idea, could you have spoken with the school to suggest it wouldn't be wise?

Surely you appreciate that your DD was asked to stay at home for a good reason? She behaved terribly. The teacher didn't deserve to be shouted and sworn at. Your DD needs to learn how to manage her emotions better. And the school haven't put it down as a suspension, which is surely a good thing.

Perhaps you could ask for a meeting with the school to review your DD's needs and how school can help meet them.

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