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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not know whether the school are at fault in how they dealt with my 16 year old and 10 months old very academic but immature Autistic daughter after she acted out due to her disabilties.

218 replies

Battlehorse · 24/09/2024 21:47

DD is an extremely bright 16 year old who obtained 9 grade 9 s at GCSE this year. However, despite being academically very able feel is emotionally immature for Sixth Form. This in no small part due to her autism, meaning at times she can exhibit emotional outbursts that can not be predicted or mitigated for.

The school my daughter attends is a girls grammar school which highlights achievements of its pupils in magazines, newsletters and in the local media . This meaning in August, the school took the obligatory pictures of their high attaining pupils getting their GCSE results and putting the pictures in the September/ October newsletter.

DD who is very unsure of herself or her self worth, viewed the newsletter online.
This caused her huge emotional distress which led to her swearing at the head of Sixth form and running out of school in a state of anguish. The school have told her to stay home until Thursday. DD called me on her phone outside the school premises to pick her up today.

I can't help thinking the school in printing her name and picture and encouraging her to take 4 A Levels have not taken in to account her learning disabilities. This totally against my wishes for her that she takes no more than 3 A Levels and also be allowed three years for her Sixth Form study.

The school have been aware of her Autism diagnosis since she was 13. However, due to her high academic ability she does not have an EHCP, though the school previously have acknowledged they have a duty of care. This being the reason why a unofficial two day stay at home notice has been given, rather than as a potential suspension sanction against her.

OP posts:
TheAlchemy · 25/09/2024 08:29

Blanc0Nin0 · 25/09/2024 08:25

Did you not think parents of autistic spend a lot of time every day trying to prepare their children for the outside world. Autism is a protected disability for a reason.

Yes her mum will know she will struggle to make friends, most autistic people do, it’s part of the disability.

The OP isn’t doing her daughter any favours in preparing her for the outside world by blaming the school for this situation and not explaining to her daughter that she can’t treat people as she has.

Blanc0Nin0 · 25/09/2024 08:25

TheAlchemy · 25/09/2024 08:09

You need to rapidly start preparing your “16 years and 10 months” old daughter for the outside world.

The real world where in colleges or universities swearing at teaching staff will most certainly see you suspended.

Where swearing at an employer will see you get the sack.

Where beyond the legally mandated reasonable adjustment people will not be willing to walk on egg shells preempting her next outburst.

She will struggle socially to make friends.

You’re not doing your daughter any favours by blaming the school here and you need to start focusing on how your daughter is going to adjust to life beyond school.

Did you not think parents of autistic spend a lot of time every day trying to prepare their children for the outside world. Autism is a protected disability for a reason.

Yes her mum will know she will struggle to make friends, most autistic people do, it’s part of the disability.

Blanc0Nin0 · 25/09/2024 08:25

TheAlchemy · 25/09/2024 08:09

You need to rapidly start preparing your “16 years and 10 months” old daughter for the outside world.

The real world where in colleges or universities swearing at teaching staff will most certainly see you suspended.

Where swearing at an employer will see you get the sack.

Where beyond the legally mandated reasonable adjustment people will not be willing to walk on egg shells preempting her next outburst.

She will struggle socially to make friends.

You’re not doing your daughter any favours by blaming the school here and you need to start focusing on how your daughter is going to adjust to life beyond school.

Did you not think parents of autistic spend a lot of time every day trying to prepare their children for the outside world. Autism is a protected disability for a reason.

Yes her mum will know she will struggle to make friends, most autistic people do, it’s part of the disability.

WindsurfingDreams · 25/09/2024 08:22

Soontobe60 · 25/09/2024 08:16

So what you’re saying here is that a person with a disability has to fit in around the rest of the world? Sounds ever so slightly discriminatory to me.

Well the rest of the world shouldnt have to tolerate being sworn at, no.

I'm autistic and so are most of my family and none of us feel that means we have a free pass to behave appallingly.

As autistic people make their way through life they also need to understand they will encounter other people with other vulnerabilities . My friend has severe PTSD and someone shouting and swearing at her would cause huge distress. She can certainly expect to be protected from that in the workplace

TheAlchemy · 25/09/2024 08:21

Soontobe60 · 25/09/2024 08:16

So what you’re saying here is that a person with a disability has to fit in around the rest of the world? Sounds ever so slightly discriminatory to me.

The simple fact of the matter is that yes she will. Universities and employers will do their best to accommodate under reasonable adjustment legislation but realistically beyond that they are not going to do much.

Academic staff at a university certainly won’t put up with being told to fuck off regardless of someone having autism.

An employer will absolutely fire someone on the spot for gross misconduct if they are told to fuck off.

Because as PP have said autism is not an excuse for treating people like shit.

Learning basic manners and common decency is not “fitting in around the rest of the world”

EHCPerhaps · 25/09/2024 08:21

Battlehorse · 24/09/2024 22:50

DD does not have learning difficulties in the way that a pupil might struggle to get a grade 2 or 3 for instance. She does however have difficulties in understanding nuance and intentions in written work especially in English Literature. This has been noted by her current English teacher who suggested her first piece of A Level homework did not understand the nuance or intention of the characters.

OP hope you’re OK. The nit picking about learning disabilities is just showing ignorance on here. There are disabling aspects of autism that can create huge barriers to learning and particularly going to school.

DoreenonTill8 · 25/09/2024 08:20

They cant stop being accountable for their actions!
What does that mean? The dd being accountable for her actions?
The school should be held accountable for not suspending a pupil who was verbally abusive to staff?

Soontobe60 · 25/09/2024 08:16

TheAlchemy · 25/09/2024 08:09

You need to rapidly start preparing your “16 years and 10 months” old daughter for the outside world.

The real world where in colleges or universities swearing at teaching staff will most certainly see you suspended.

Where swearing at an employer will see you get the sack.

Where beyond the legally mandated reasonable adjustment people will not be willing to walk on egg shells preempting her next outburst.

She will struggle socially to make friends.

You’re not doing your daughter any favours by blaming the school here and you need to start focusing on how your daughter is going to adjust to life beyond school.

So what you’re saying here is that a person with a disability has to fit in around the rest of the world? Sounds ever so slightly discriminatory to me.

Soontobe60 · 25/09/2024 08:14

DoreenonTill8 · 24/09/2024 23:16

So teachers should be told to expect to be verbally abused but it's all OK?

Having taught many children with varying SEN needs including ASD, getting sworn at occasionally is par for the course. Being told to fuck off when I’ve told someone it’s time to stop a particular activity, for example, is a common thing. I’m not offended, I don’t react with anger, I won’t melt!
When you’re dealing with young people, particularly teenage young people who have the added complication of puberty to deal with, then you get used to rolling with the ups and downs.
OP, I’d say your DD may find this school doesn’t meet her needs. It’s a grammar school, so will be full of high achieving students and high academic expectations hence the 4 A levels. They are not going to agree to her dropping one or completing them over 3 years. I would be looking at an alternative provision for her. Oh, and there’s no such thing as sending her home to calm down. She has been suspended and I would want all the relevant paperwork around that. They cant stop being accountable for their actions!

TootieeFruitiee · 25/09/2024 08:09

I think it’s right she’s at home till Thursday. However you also need to inform them (rather then asking them) that your daughter will be dropping one A level if her choice due to autism linked overwhelm.

TheAlchemy · 25/09/2024 08:09

You need to rapidly start preparing your “16 years and 10 months” old daughter for the outside world.

The real world where in colleges or universities swearing at teaching staff will most certainly see you suspended.

Where swearing at an employer will see you get the sack.

Where beyond the legally mandated reasonable adjustment people will not be willing to walk on egg shells preempting her next outburst.

She will struggle socially to make friends.

You’re not doing your daughter any favours by blaming the school here and you need to start focusing on how your daughter is going to adjust to life beyond school.

Needleprick · 25/09/2024 08:04

Admodean · 25/09/2024 06:07

the OP’s daughter could be mentally 8
Someone with learning disabilities that made them mentally 8 would not be studying A levels.

Autistic children don’t respond to “consequences”
Not true. Some children with learning disabilities don’t understand consequences. But this isn’t a characteristic of autism.

Autism also causes children to be cognitively and emotionally behind their peers, usually substantially
What a load of nonsense people are posting on this thread. Autism doesn’t necessarily affect intelligence. Lots of autistic people have normal or superior intelligence.

OP I have autism and it doesn’t mean you can go around verbally abusing people. You need to assist your daughter in learning to manage her emotions and behaviours otherwise she’ll struggle to have a normal life. The world outside school isn’t going to adapt to her (beyond “reasonable adjustments” and sometimes not even that). She needs to learn coping strategies. This sort of behaviour won’t be tolerated in the workplace, so even if she achieves a degree she won’t be able to keep a job unless she can learn to behave appropriately. If her disability means she can’t behave appropriately then fair enough, but that will impact upon her life and her options.

Autistic children don’t respond to “consequences”
Not true. Some children with learning disabilities don’t understand consequences. But this isn’t a characteristic of autism.

It absolutely is the case for some children with autism. In PDA for example where behaviour patterns are driven by intense stress and anxiety, ‘consequences’ often do nothing but increase the behaviour- children are unable to regulate a panic attack even if they know they will get in trouble later, so they become more panicked and the behaviour escalates.

Serencwtch · 25/09/2024 08:02

ZanyPombear · 25/09/2024 01:47

Autistic children don’t respond to “consequences”. They can’t associate what they have done with the consequence.
Autism causes a loss of control and inability to think straight when distressed. Autism also causes children to be cognitively and emotionally behind their peers, usually substantially, which means the OP’s daughter could be mentally 8. would you have expected a child at 8 who can’t control themselves to handle this situation like an adult? I don’t think so. The OP’s child will also know more adult language because she has been on the earth longer.

There are quite rightly consequences for anyone swearing at a teacher.

It wouldn't be acceptable for an 8 year old with learning disabilities to swear at a teacher either.

chickenbhunalambbhunaprawnbhunamuchroomrice · 25/09/2024 08:01

Coruscations · 25/09/2024 00:22

@JaneEyreLaughing, your lack of understanding of autism and basic equality rights is seriously depressing. Where has anyone said OP's daughter was happy to have her photo published? How were the staff helping her if they published that photo knowing she would be very distressed by it? If a school fails to make reasonable adjustments for disability, it should not be punishing disabled pupils for reactions to that which are a direct result of their disability.

Edited

The OP literally said she was probably happy to have the photo taken..

chickenbhunalambbhunaprawnbhunamuchroomrice · 25/09/2024 08:00

Coruscations · 25/09/2024 00:18

Staff have the right to not have students swear at them. Autism isn't a free pass to be verbally aggressive to others

But disabled pupils have a right to reasonable adjustments. In OP's daughter's case, that includes not being photographed when they know it will cause her severe distress. In circumstances when they have not made those adjustments, they have to make further adjustments for the result of that failure, including not punishing the disabled young person.

The jf the OPs daughter consented or wanted to be pictured, refusing to can be seen as discrimination or lead to a meltdown. The school can't win.

marmaladian · 25/09/2024 08:00

Not in UK but from what I can gather 9 GCSE;s is good? So the learning difficulties, whatever they are have not affected her yet.
OT - but who refers to their teenager as 16yo and 10 months. I'm lucky I remember the exact date of their birthday, for months I'd have to start counting backwards from 12. It;s how you refer to an 18 month old.
I'm still uncertain what caused the "anguish".
Very confusing OP.

Lemonadeand · 25/09/2024 07:46

Battlehorse · 24/09/2024 23:08

Because DD is Autistic, it is possible that when the photograph was taken in August at results day she was fine with it and in a other world. She probably would not have given it a thought to whether it would be published at times, she lives in the minute at times. Obviously has she gets older and more experienced with life, coping skills will be acquired which will enable her to deal better with issues, which bring no threat to Neuro Typical people but a world of pain to the Neuro Diverse. My personal experience knows this takes time.

Regarding the Swearing at the teacher DD feels she is a dreadful person and over remorseful, this being the typical response from a lovely girl who can struggle emotionally at times.

I don’t think the school can possibly have known she would react the way she did. Imagine if they had decided not to photograph her and include her in their publicity, despite presumably having all the correct permission forms in place, because she’s autistic?

Birdseyetrifle · 25/09/2024 07:45

It sounds like your daughter has calmed down and reflected on what happened. I’d contact the school and ask for a chat so she can explain calmly and also apologise for swearing and storming out.

I don’t think they will change the A levels to 3 years though.

susey · 25/09/2024 07:35

OP you have said some things in later posts that imply you also have autism, is that right?

It seems like you are struggling to navigate this transition as much as your child.

I think it's time to engage with the school to discuss support and a plan for your child if she is to stay in that setting. They will have supported her/you more in the five years of compulsory schooling to GCSEs. Sixth form is different and it needs to be the right place for her.

ichundich · 25/09/2024 07:25

Did you give consent for her picture to be taken and published? We have to fill out consent forms at the beginning of each academic year; I thought all schools have to have these.

lolly792 · 25/09/2024 07:22

What is the school actually registered with the DfE for? It's not as simple as just saying 'I want her to spend 3 years on her A levels', the school is likely registered for 11-18. It may be possible for another year but may require permission from above the school itself, there may be funding implications, and I still don't see how the logistics would work. Unless she's simply repeating a year somewhere along the line, for some subjects, it would require a bespoke, perhaps 1:1 teaching arrangement.

Quite frankly the OP seems to be full of demands about what the school 'should' be doing (even somehow expecting them to predict an emotional response in the dd that the OP and dd couldn't themselves) and wanting a complete restructuring of A levels which is not a reasonable adjustment.

And I'd bet good money that if the school had turned round and refused the dd taking the 4 A levels she wishes to, and insisted she stick at 3, the OP would be on here complaining that the school were blocking the dd from achieving her aspirations!

You just can't win with some people.

Hffy45 · 25/09/2024 07:21

I work in a college and have taught two students who sat their A-Levels over three years. They both had an EHCP though, which I think was needed to arrange the funding. I don’t think the college would have agreed without this in place as they wouldn’t have been able to sort funding for the third year. They studied two subjects the first year and then added on a third subject in year 2. So it definitely is possible, although I imagine it might be easier to arrange at a college than a school sixth form.

MaryBeery · 25/09/2024 07:14

Autumn38 · 25/09/2024 06:27

it is possible if she studies for 2 subjects year 1, adds in a third the following year but only has to sit two exams and then only has one subject and one set of exams in year 3.

takes the pressure off somewhat

That might work, but has increased potential for timetable clashes as the year 12 and year 13 schedules won't necessarily be compatible. Also if any of the subjects require field trips or residentials of some sort, then make sure she starts those first, as they sometimes get scheduled in exam season, as staff with exam classes have less teaching load then so need less cover.

nomoremsniceperson · 25/09/2024 07:11

I think it's important for there to be consequences for bad behaviour, even if there are mitigating circumstances for that behaviour. Otherwise children learn that they will be accommodated for acting out, when in the real world, acting out is going to severely limit their opportunities, relationships and general progress.
However, I think that from now on you should clarify with the school that photos of your child are not to be published without express prior consent from you and your daughter.

Fgfgfg · 25/09/2024 07:08

OP it may not be possible for her to take 3 years because schools aren't allowed or insured to have anyone over 19 on roll. They may be able to claim an exemption but it may not be granted so you need to seek clarification on this.

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