Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not know whether the school are at fault in how they dealt with my 16 year old and 10 months old very academic but immature Autistic daughter after she acted out due to her disabilties.

218 replies

Battlehorse · 24/09/2024 21:47

DD is an extremely bright 16 year old who obtained 9 grade 9 s at GCSE this year. However, despite being academically very able feel is emotionally immature for Sixth Form. This in no small part due to her autism, meaning at times she can exhibit emotional outbursts that can not be predicted or mitigated for.

The school my daughter attends is a girls grammar school which highlights achievements of its pupils in magazines, newsletters and in the local media . This meaning in August, the school took the obligatory pictures of their high attaining pupils getting their GCSE results and putting the pictures in the September/ October newsletter.

DD who is very unsure of herself or her self worth, viewed the newsletter online.
This caused her huge emotional distress which led to her swearing at the head of Sixth form and running out of school in a state of anguish. The school have told her to stay home until Thursday. DD called me on her phone outside the school premises to pick her up today.

I can't help thinking the school in printing her name and picture and encouraging her to take 4 A Levels have not taken in to account her learning disabilities. This totally against my wishes for her that she takes no more than 3 A Levels and also be allowed three years for her Sixth Form study.

The school have been aware of her Autism diagnosis since she was 13. However, due to her high academic ability she does not have an EHCP, though the school previously have acknowledged they have a duty of care. This being the reason why a unofficial two day stay at home notice has been given, rather than as a potential suspension sanction against her.

OP posts:
WindsurfingDreams · 26/09/2024 08:02

I find it strange that you perceive that your daughter has the maturity of an 8 year old yet shes able to select a very specific career path that would require a huge amount of interpersonal sophistication to do well and is being supported to go down that route

Piggywaspushed · 26/09/2024 08:00

ps there is NO WAY you would be told the HOSF is 'on disciplinary'.

Marinade · 26/09/2024 07:59

MrsKeats · 26/09/2024 07:39

It's a total mystery why there is a teacher retention crisis Confused

We should count the number of times that the schools' signifcant duty of care is mentioned compared to her moral and ethical duty to ensure that her daugther treats the teachers with the respect they deserve.

Piggywaspushed · 26/09/2024 07:57

This sounds madness OP. 4 A levels and a random college course on top of this just to fill 3 years (which will be funding and Guided Learning Hours related not child focused at all).

Surely you should be pushing for just the standard 3 A levels as part of a provision for her needs?? From what you tell us about your DD, I cannot see how adding another BTec type course will be helpful to her .

I teach some who claims they are doing a 3 year A level route. It's not working out. They keep taking English, dropping it, taking it and, frankly, faffing.

Piggywaspushed · 26/09/2024 07:52

Your DD doesn't have an EHCP but the school do get extra funding for her? How does that work?

MrsKeats · 26/09/2024 07:39

It's a total mystery why there is a teacher retention crisis Confused

Marinade · 25/09/2024 21:11

lolly792 · 25/09/2024 20:39

Biscuit

Indeed.

lolly792 · 25/09/2024 20:39
Biscuit
ShamblesRock · 25/09/2024 20:27

Sounds a right mess OP and your DD has very much been let down.

I still question the wisdom of 4 A levels plus a level 3 even if it is over 3 years. Will she still be studying alongside her peers and learning the content in the first two years?

Battlehorse · 25/09/2024 19:21

I am a bit emotional hence the mistakes...

OP posts:
Battlehorse · 25/09/2024 19:20

The Head of Sixth Form had made no notes about DD's absence or stay at home order.

OP posts:
Battlehorse · 25/09/2024 19:19

Right, it turns out serious safe guarding issues have been raised with regards to the go home until Thursday notice from the now on a disciplinary Head of Sixth Form.
He also exacerbated what actually happened in his office admitting to the Head that DD had not actually personally swore at him but after she left his office. The Head nor DD's form tutor had no idea that she was not on the premises today and was therefore illegally removed from classes . The Head of Sixth Form had actually informed nobody or even written anything done. Thus, the Head is absolutely appalled with what happened yesterday.

It also appears that the newly installed Head of Sixth form had took it upon himself to remove significant amounts of DD support that she has had from year 7. This facilitating in the last 10 days or do a dramatic drop school work and emotional behavior. For obvious reasons cannot go into details anymore.

The school do get extra funding for DD and as the Head noted have a significant duty of care towards her . The school and governors acknowledge the needs of my DD means a three year Sixth Form study period is appropriate. However, this means perhaps bringing in a FE College to undergo a Level 3 course relevant to Journalism alongside 4 A Levels, This being because the Head believes DD should take 2 A Levels at the end of Year 13. The use of Year 14 (which has been funded in exceptional circumstances before ) could be used for the other two or at least be available for potential pitfalls in Year 13.

OP posts:
lolly792 · 25/09/2024 18:06

If the school policy is for students to take 4 A levels then why on earth choose a grammar school? This set up sounds highly unusual, the vast majority of schools do 3. It's strange to pick a school and then complain about very specific requirements of that school.

It sounds like a difficult situation for the OP and the later posts sound more reasonable and understanding of the wider issues. But the bottom line is: no one should have to tolerate being sworn at by anyone else whatever their particular neurodiversity.

And no one can be a mind reader and predict an emotional reaction from a young person which they and their own parent can't predict.

It's also rather tiresome when a few people try to shut down others' views with 'oh you've obviously got no experience of autism.' You have no clue what experience others have, in their personal or professional life. I have plenty of experience and I also take employee well being extremely seriously and no employee should have to tolerate verbal aggression. Just because a few individuals are cool with it, does not make it ok .

DoreenonTill8 · 25/09/2024 15:15

But is your ds being verbally abusive @needleprick? Also his needs sound different if he is unable to keep himself safe re risk of running into traffic.

Needleprick · 25/09/2024 14:38

WalkingWithGoats · 25/09/2024 08:30

Mhm not sure. Would Op's dd have sworn at a large, heavy masculine looking male teacher? Because the consequences of that are instinctively more dangerous than shouting abuse at female teachers.

Shouting abuse is unacceptable whether disabled or not. Why do your dd's needs trump the teachers need to feel save with her dignity intact?

If your dd can't behave, she is not in the right environment for her. Also, you focus a Loy on academic brightens but if your dd is not able to control her anger and aggression, those 9s aren't going to get her far.

Perhaps, scale it all down, talk to her about being a rounded individual.

This isn’t about my daughter- I don’t have a daughter.

My son will melt down in anyone’s presence- big burly man or not. That’s the point, he can’t control it. If he is melting down and you try and interfere with him in any way he will scream and run away- into roads or anything. He knows cars=run over=bad but it isn’t within his control.

Beth216 · 25/09/2024 12:35

You need to help her manage emotions and build resilience OP. I would suggest you are her first port of call for now if she is upset about something so that you can hopefully talk her down. This is how I would handle it with mine with ASD.

She is very upset about her photo and name being advertised - that is not unreasonable even if she gave permission at the time because for one she didn't know what the photo would look like. I understand her upset if she has low self esteem and/or thinks the photo is awful.
The photo has already been published but lots of people don't bother reading emails or school newsletters so the chances are most people haven't seen it or didn't even take any notice of it.
It is not acceptable to swear at someone, but huge guilt and shame about it aren't helpful either. Next time she needs to phone you if possible before tackling something very upsetting by herself so you can discuss how to handle it together.
She needs to think about what she wants to happen - would she like her picture removed? It is not unreasonable to ask the school to remove the picture.

It is not reasonable for the school to force her to do 4 A-levels. She should be allowed to drop Chemistry if that is what she wants. If they don't allow that then her options are to disengage with chem and concentrate on her other subjects or to leave the school. She can disengage with chemistry, and then drop it at the end of the year. She will not need to wait till 20 to go to uni and she needs to do her A-levels in the normal time frame. Taking a year out after them is a good idea though and choosing a uni that is nearby would also be a sensible choice.

My biggest concern is what has been going on for your dd in the last 2 weeks? It sounds like she might be struggling with the jump from GCSE's to A-levels? Missing the nuance in Eng Lit when you have ASD is not surprising and I wonder if Eng Lang might be a better choice for her?

WindsurfingDreams · 25/09/2024 12:28

Battlehorse · 25/09/2024 12:25

She may not get a foot into any employment door whether that be in professional or menial workplace. This being the reality of living with Autism as a disability whether that be Low or High Function forms.
Hence, the reason why over 90% of those deemed High Functioning over an IQ of 70 (many of these people having IQ's of 120 and above) are locked out of the jobs market or working part time in menial jobs far below their abilities.

This is a topic for another day,
Ask my daughter on a different day, she might have stated a desire to be a Fireman.

I know heaps of people with autism who work. But all of them were raised to know that certain behaviours were unacceptable. DH and I both have autism and have been successful professionally (albeit in supportive work places). Don't write her off, but equally don't indulge her. If she is capable of getting 9 x9 at GCSE then she is more than capable of learning basic behaviour rules (eg not swearing).

Battlehorse · 25/09/2024 12:25

She may not get a foot into any employment door whether that be in professional or menial workplace. This being the reality of living with Autism as a disability whether that be Low or High Function forms.
Hence, the reason why over 90% of those deemed High Functioning over an IQ of 70 (many of these people having IQ's of 120 and above) are locked out of the jobs market or working part time in menial jobs far below their abilities.

This is a topic for another day,
Ask my daughter on a different day, she might have stated a desire to be a Fireman.

OP posts:
chickenbhunalambbhunaprawnbhunamuchroomrice · 25/09/2024 12:17

What's not being gay, and being attractive got to do with anything? That along with saying she's '16 and 10 months' is all very weird.

Sickday444 · 25/09/2024 12:07

I’m diagnosed with a NT condition (I refuse to call it a disability). I wasn’t diagnosed until just after uni but it made education extremely difficult for me.

Life is hard especially school. I remember the struggles.

I mean this gently, but you should be focusing on the soft skills for your daughter over the hard skills (aka A Level results).

She’ll never get a job as a runner/tea girl in the world of media if she cannot learn to be at least civil/polite with others. I’d focus on helping her navigate this situation on apologising to the teacher and ensuring that she never swears at somebody else in a professional capacity/takes her frustrations out on others.

Honestly that will set her up better for life than an A-level in English Lit.

Coruscations · 25/09/2024 11:45

It's not logistically impossible to take three years for A levels, plenty of colleges do it. In fact, the SEN Code of Practice specifically requires local authorities and education institutions to take into account the obvious fact that children with SEN may need more time to get qualifications. I agree that, if the school is geared up to do two year courses they can't spread the syllabus over three years, but it's not clear that that is what OP is asking. It may be, for instance, that it would be enough for her daughter to repeat one of the sixth form years.

VickyEadieofThigh · 25/09/2024 11:33

Taking 3 years for A levels is, as others have pointed out, logistically impossible. In all my 40+ years working in and with schools, the only 3rd year A level students were those doing re-takes. You could ask for her not to sit the exams until the year after but she'd be twiddling her thumbs - or just repeating the same classes she had in the lower or upper sixth.

I'm with those who say the school were quite right in asking her to stay home for a couple of days following her foul-mouthed abuse of a teacher. As a Head, I'd have taken the same action and made clear to student and parents that repeats of it might see her permanently excluded.

JaneEyreLaughing · 25/09/2024 11:26

She wants to be a political correspondent!

How do you think she will cope in that world where deadlines are very real, it's a cut throat world and telling people to fuck off will result in some pretty harsh lessons. She won't last two minutes and probably won't even get her foot in the door.

OnaBegonia · 25/09/2024 11:25

OP, I am autistic as is my DS, your DD has done brilliantly so far academically. From reading your comments it seems that you think the school should allow any behaviour from your DD and she be allowed a free pass.
Sadly, life isn't like that, we all need to find ways to manage and balance our behaviour and feelings.
The photo example is actually ludicrous and she does deserve to be excluded.
If she's capable of those exam passes she does not have a learning disability and you need to stop using it as a stick to beat people with.
To add, saying 16 and 10 mths is also ludicrous.

x2boys · 25/09/2024 11:24

sashh · 25/09/2024 11:14

It is. It interferes with how you learn and what you are able to learn more easily.

OP do you think she would be better off elsewhere?

We don't now that the DD was happy with the photos being taken, she may have had no choice, then to find they have been published pushed her over the edge.

I don't see how publishing a picture, assuming you have agreed to photo consent, would be considered a potential issue.

I totally get how and why it could be an issue, I really struggle with having photos taken and knowing one had been made public would probably have me angry crying so I can totally get where the OP is coming from.

No it is not a good idea to swear at a teacher but she obviously felt really stressed and swearing at a teacher is better than a lot of other options.

OP I would want a meeting with the head about how they can support your DD and I would also consider whether she would be better off in another environment.

That's a learning difficulty not disability there is a big difference.

Swipe left for the next trending thread