A&e regular attender

Because it doesn't take 12 hours to be seen first time. Edit - in the vast majority of cases.

How can people attend A&E 'multiple time a day' when it takes 12+ hours to be seen the first time?

I imagine it’s for the time wasters who go to A&E for sunburn or because they don’t want to speak to a pharmacist about their cough.

Absolutely this is the majority of people I see (I work part time in a hospital minor injuries dept and also in a GP surgery). At the hospital the majority of patients coming through are coming in 4-6x a year wanting to be better checked out after a minor bump/soft tissue injury, 'i stubbed my toe 2 days ago and not quite better yet so thought I should get checked out, my knee clicked walking down stairs a week ago and Ive been wondering wgat caused that,I'd like it checked with an x-ray to be sure it's ok'... then at the GP multiple attendances for sore throat, cough, a twinge in my stomach that lasted about 4seconds what do you think it could be.... They just come in for the it'll be alright service.

I have a friend who is a GP and said the vast majority of his patients are the same ones over and over.
He said there are periods where people might attend regularly for a problem but they should be referred to somewhere else for proper help. He said there are people who come about every tiny issue, it’s not a mental health thing, they think they are there to fix them, literally aches and pains and headaches etc. My sister in law goes to the doctor when she has a cold because it ‘makes her feel better’

Like others have said, the point of keeping FF lists is to try to figure out what can be done to meet patient needs better, not to stop meeting their needs.

I dunno about bans. My informed guess is that it would only be applied when patients threatened staff with violence or probably only actually attacked the staff (repeatedly), and not because of painful delirium, either, but rather bec they are aggressive people didn't show contrition about it, too.

A massive number of crimes relate to mental health, it doesn't distract from the crime they're committing.

I believe the common charges relate to malicious communications (much easier to prove as all calls are logged and recorded), or they've breached the asbo/cpn in attending a&e in breach of it. Theres also a specific charge regards being a nuisance on NHS property.

It's not uncommon to be arrested or even go to prison for suicide attempts or "wasting emergency services time" iv been arrested from a&e for refusing to leave when I was suicidal once

Please don't worry about this!
It sounds like you have a very genuine reason to be there and if you need medical help, please don't put it off in worry of this, they won't turn you down!
I have health anxiety and use to be a regular attender, I was never put on any frequent attender list. If you need them, they're there and if you have a health concern you should be seen. I think it would be more for people that went for things that should be a Gp thing x

Prison? On what charge?

Surely this is to do with mental health rather than physical health

The ban is usually words to the effect of 'if you attend with your typical complaint/minor illness then you'll face a criminal charge, but if it's a real emergency i.e. hit by car then you can attend.'

Whenever I've seen/read through history of someone who has been banned their attendances are extreme. Talking multiple times a day every day, often abusive, going on for months/years with all avenues to rehabilitate/educate/warn exhausted. People do get sent to prison for this.

Don't worry 6 times in a year is not a frequent flyer! I've met several patients that attend daily. And even if it was in reality those plans are about helping the person use more appropriate services and actually get help that they can't get in a&e not to punish patients.

My dd was a frequent attender with her asthma at one point - until they gave her montelukast and she hasn’t been since! That’s about 8 years ago I think. Only gave it to her when the headteacher commented on her absences though…

DS has been a bit injury prone but hoping it’s not enough that he’s on the list - every time it’s been a sprain that we needn’t have gone in for (nearly always sustained at school ) but he’ll make you think it’s broken… He’ll be almost radioactive soon.

They will likely flag it, but not as a time waster. It will be flagged that the appropriate department isn't managing your condition adequately.

How does that work if they need A&E for something physical?

This must be a regional thing. I have had a chronic illness for almost two decades and every time I speak to my consultant when things get bad and they think I’ll need long-term treatment, I’m told to come in through a&e. The only time I haven’t is when it has been a booked surgical procedure.

I work in mental health and some our patients have court orders/ bans around their use of emergency services or A&E attendance. 6 times in a year is nothing, especially as you require treatment when you go.

You cant where i am - Major trauma Hospital

I ALWAYS have to go to A&E

I see a consultant in that specif area, Renal, Gastro, Neuro

But i have never been admitted straight onto a ward, often because doctors arent always on wards, especially at 3am
Wards dont ‘stablise’ you or routinely offer ‘Emergency treatment’

Just because your hospital works like this
It doesnt mean its the same everywhere

AND it is not unusual to have a well managed chronic condition and still need to go to A&E often and basically saying that people like me and the OP’s conditions cant be well managed is frankly rather insulting

Where I work (non-UK), yes, we also make "frequent presenter" plans for some patients with genuine medical conditions. It serves multiple purposes:

1. Saves staff who haven't met the patient before from wasting time trawling through months/years of notes to understand the situation

2. Expedites treatment and disposition by having a clear plan for specific symptoms already documented. In some cases, there may be a standing agreement from an inpatient service to directly admit the patient

3. Prevents over-investigation of already-investigated conditions and its attendant risks, especially when there is a psychosomatic component to the presentations (this is often, although not always, the case when someone repeatedly presents to emergency for a chronic condition)

4. Triggers involvement of other services that may be able to prevent or reduce hospital attendance e.g. we have teams who can do home visits for some chronic conditions, including management of exacerbations in certain circumstances

In some cases, we would also share these plans with other hospitals in the area. We do very occasionally issue a "not welcome" order to an individual, preventing them from attending our department again, but only in the context of repeated aggressive, violent, or otherwise antisocial behaviour requiring police attendance to the department (sadly, not uncommon where I work).

At one point a few years ago I was classed as a frequent user I never went of my own accord. It was police/crisis team/ CMHT or after an attempt on my own life where I wasn’t conscious.
i requested my notes a while ago and it was honestly quite horrible some of the comments in the notes by some staff.
One particular nurse was always quite horrible and had no time for any MH patients until once when I was brought back in resus she sat with me till my husband could get there.
i understand frequent fliers are a pain especially when there’s nothing that can tangibly be done in MH cases it’s basically a sticking plaster

From an NHS doctor- this is absolutely crazy. Where do you live that there is this level of resource?

There are no beds for GPs to admit to- even if you ring the speciality and the admission is agreed you end up in A&E awaiting a bed.
You can't just show up willy nilly in the hospital with no one expecting you. Clinics are already overbooked with a years waiting list for routine. The specialist nurse can have a role but this is very specific and protocol driven- any significant deterioration and they will advise A&E.

You have to be going to a&e very regularly to end up on the radar. But yes the person with health anxiety who turns up to a&e to that high frequency is certainly at significantly more risk of having a missed or delayed diagnosis when it is a blood clot.

If you go in to A&E with chest pain short of breath/I'm worried I'm having a heart attack for the first time you will get a very thorough work up, if initial tests are normal you'll be kept for monitoring and repeat of tests/more specialist tests should initial testing not evidence a diagnosis.

If a person presents with those same symptoms, however it's his 60th attendance that year for chest pain short of breath, for which there's never any cause found/presumed anxiety when all other testing normal - then they may well be a plan in place that means they just receive initial basic tests then discharge to GP.

We all know at some point these patients will have something genuine, because at some point illness comes to us all - so differences from their typical presentation will be considered.

I work for the ambulance service and we put plans in place for regulars. There are some who can call and report they cannot breath, have chest pain and feel like they're going to die - but we don't even respond in an ambulance just give them a call back every 2 hours until they cancel. To get to this place though these people have been calling multiple times a day - getting taken to A&E and on returning home call 999 again. These people will have absolutely led to the harm and deaths to others in the delaying of their care and that's why the plans go in place to try and limit how much they harm they cause.

My MiL was a frequent Flyer, she has Alzheimer's and the associated falls, meant she needed hospital treatment as paramedics rarely arrived in time to get her on her feet without being checked into A &E . We were never made to feel uncomfortable by staff.

The staff are quite aware of who needs to be there and who is coming for other reasons (loneliness, attention seeking, wanting a bed and food or whatever) if you medically need to be there don't worry

Those lists are for people who come in multiple times a day! Or at least multiple times a week. I was once in A&E and the same guy came on 3 times just in the time I was waiting lol