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AIBU?

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AIBU to worry about telling colleagues that I’m going to Israel?

444 replies

Doubtfulso · 24/09/2024 13:41

I’ve got a close friends wedding in Israel in 2 months and I am a bridesmaid. She is Israeli and so of course having her wedding in her home country.

I need to book the time off work now, and I work in the kind of company where everyone asks where you’re going or where you’ve been when you book leave.

there’s a lot of anger and strong feelings against Israel at the moment, and I’m worried that colleagues will turn against me or start treating me different when they know that I’m going to Israel.

would I be unreasonable to lie and tell them I’m going somewhere else, or should I be honest?

OP posts:
mollyfolk · 24/09/2024 19:07

I'd be too nervous to go because we are advised against travel, I'd be worried if I needed an embassy for some reason it wouldn't be available. I'd also worry about the insurance aspect.

But I work in a very pro Palestine environment where people openly speak about it and I stll don't think I'd get flack for going / it's your friends wedding, it's not like your off to fight with the idf

Rosscameasdoody · 24/09/2024 19:06

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Hellostrawberries · 24/09/2024 19:06

I'd judge you for keeping it a secret! Go! And have an amazing time. Israeli weddings are incredible!

FunnyJadeFinch · 24/09/2024 19:06

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And for those who say there's no antisemitism on this thread...

LBFseBrom · 24/09/2024 19:06

This is very interesting because I have never equated anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism, particularly considering a significant number of Orthodox Jews are not Zionists. That despite the fact that they go to, and many live in, Israel and enjoy all the benefits therein.

Personally I believe in the State of Israel, always have, and in the right of the Palestinians to be where they are. I fail to understand why they cannot just peacefully co-exist. It would be such an achievement if they could. The war becomes worse all the time, there are so many atrocities committed by both sides. I wouldn't want to live there. I do not, however, consider going there to be taking sides, people travel to and fro all the time.

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/ultra-orthodox-anti-zionist/

Doubtfulso · 24/09/2024 19:04

I’m not going to be swayed against visiting Israel, so those of you trying to get me to do that are wasting your time.

As long as planes are still flying there, I will be on them as I love my friend dearly and want to be there on her wedding day.

If things kicks off more when I’m there, my friend has said that I can stay with her family until flights back to the Uk resume. I’m willing to take the risk.

Judging by some of these comments, I think I would be better off lying and saying I’m going to Cyprus. I can’t be sure that my manager isn’t someone that holds these really extreme beliefs against Israel, and I don’t want it to impact my progression at work.

guess I’d better Google some facts about Cyprus now!

OP posts:
ChallahPlaiter · 24/09/2024 19:04

Rosscameasdoody · 24/09/2024 19:02

To be clear. Genocide. The deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group. So attempted. And like it or not, what’s going on in Gaza has the same feel.

Edited

It’s not about feelings, it’s about whether actions meet a specific definition.

FunnyJadeFinch · 24/09/2024 19:03

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Oh FFS not this again.

scorpio931 · 24/09/2024 19:03

TidyOrca · 24/09/2024 18:53

Apartheid is another really inappropriate word to use. Israelis have the same legal rights irrespective of religion or ethnicity. There have been Arab members of parliament, Christian military leaders and Druze judges. Being Muslim, Bedouin, black etc does not place any legal limitations of any jobs or industries you can join. That’s literally the opposite of the experience of black people in South African apartheid. There are obviously social conditions which make some people (rich, Jewish, men) more likely to become prime minister than others, but that is true all over the world.
The key distinction which people point to when they scream “apartheid” is the difference between citizens of Israel and non-citizens. While it’s true, there is a massive difference, all countries treat their citizens preferably. That’s normal.
If you look for other borders where rich, developed countries are directly bordering significantly poorer developing countries, you will see that conditions are often similar. That’s before you factor in the population density along the border between Israel and Palestine. Could you imagine what the border between Mexico and the USA would look like if it wasn’t mostly empty farmland and desert?

I've seen black (Jewish) people treat shockingly in Israel. First time I went, I was actually collected by a black Jewish friend who had made Aliyah the previous year. He was spoken to and treated like absolute garbage at every turn, from airport cafe staff to anybody else he had dealing with in the time I spent with him. He struggled and was resigned to it.
So, whilst on paper they may have the same rights, I've found it to be a very racist society.
Perhaps if readers of this thread would like to learn more about the systemic racism in Israel, they could google about the plight of Ethiopean Jewish women being administered with birth control without their knowledge... To keep numbers (of black people) down. There are also !quotas" of how many Jewish Ethiopian immigrants Israel would allow to made Aliyah each year. I'm not aware of such quotas being in place for Jewish immigrants from other (white) countries.

Rosscameasdoody · 24/09/2024 19:02

Comedycook · 24/09/2024 19:00

were the target of attempted genocide by the Nazis

Attempted?

Wtf

To be clear. Genocide. The deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group. So attempted. And like it or not, what’s going on in Gaza has the same feel.

ChallahPlaiter · 24/09/2024 19:01

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I think we’re all aware of the situation. It’s fairly pointless to take one aspect in isolation and extrapolate.
I’m uneasy about how you skirt around saying that Jews are emulating Nazis.

Comedycook · 24/09/2024 19:00

were the target of attempted genocide by the Nazis

Attempted?

Wtf

Comedycook · 24/09/2024 18:59

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Do feel free to have a look on gov dot UK to see what the definition of anti semetism is.

Rosscameasdoody · 24/09/2024 18:58

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ChallahPlaiter · 24/09/2024 18:55

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Oh you didn’t just do that!

SababaToo · 24/09/2024 18:55

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster.

Greywhippet · 24/09/2024 18:55

TidyOrca · 24/09/2024 18:53

Apartheid is another really inappropriate word to use. Israelis have the same legal rights irrespective of religion or ethnicity. There have been Arab members of parliament, Christian military leaders and Druze judges. Being Muslim, Bedouin, black etc does not place any legal limitations of any jobs or industries you can join. That’s literally the opposite of the experience of black people in South African apartheid. There are obviously social conditions which make some people (rich, Jewish, men) more likely to become prime minister than others, but that is true all over the world.
The key distinction which people point to when they scream “apartheid” is the difference between citizens of Israel and non-citizens. While it’s true, there is a massive difference, all countries treat their citizens preferably. That’s normal.
If you look for other borders where rich, developed countries are directly bordering significantly poorer developing countries, you will see that conditions are often similar. That’s before you factor in the population density along the border between Israel and Palestine. Could you imagine what the border between Mexico and the USA would look like if it wasn’t mostly empty farmland and desert?

I don’t think anyone has been ‘screaming’ anything. Just stating

ChallahPlaiter · 24/09/2024 18:54

Rosscameasdoody · 24/09/2024 18:49

There is a documentary entitled ‘Hebron’ on YouTube. If you don’t believe that Israel is operating an apartheid system, watch it, and then decide.

Depends what you mean by apartheid. If you’re talking about its original meaning - separate development/growth - yes, like many other countries globally. Plenty would like to see that in the UK if we’re brutally honest (not me). But if you’re referring in an emotive, rather grandstanding way to apartheid era SA, not really.

TidyOrca · 24/09/2024 18:53

Apartheid is another really inappropriate word to use. Israelis have the same legal rights irrespective of religion or ethnicity. There have been Arab members of parliament, Christian military leaders and Druze judges. Being Muslim, Bedouin, black etc does not place any legal limitations of any jobs or industries you can join. That’s literally the opposite of the experience of black people in South African apartheid. There are obviously social conditions which make some people (rich, Jewish, men) more likely to become prime minister than others, but that is true all over the world.
The key distinction which people point to when they scream “apartheid” is the difference between citizens of Israel and non-citizens. While it’s true, there is a massive difference, all countries treat their citizens preferably. That’s normal.
If you look for other borders where rich, developed countries are directly bordering significantly poorer developing countries, you will see that conditions are often similar. That’s before you factor in the population density along the border between Israel and Palestine. Could you imagine what the border between Mexico and the USA would look like if it wasn’t mostly empty farmland and desert?

kirbykirby · 24/09/2024 18:52

IOSTT · 24/09/2024 18:22

There have not been massive, violent UK country-wide demonstrations about these destinations though!

I wonder why. Almost like one country is being singled out for some reason...

scorpio931 · 24/09/2024 18:51

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Mulhollandmagoo · 24/09/2024 18:49

Katiesaidthat · 24/09/2024 14:13

I´d be more worried about you. It is a country at war. I would only travel to countries in that situation for force majeur reasons. Wedding doesn´t cut it.

Same, I would keep my thoughts to myself, but they wouldn't be judging you for going, they would be hoping that you stay safe and well whilst over there.

Is it safe to travel there, are weddings and things taking place? I (possibly incorrectly) assumed that those kind of things wouldn't be going ahead right now.

Rosscameasdoody · 24/09/2024 18:49

blackcherryconserve · 24/09/2024 18:46

No she didn't agree that Israel is operating an apartheid system. And you are showing your ignorance as Israel is a democracy where Israelis, whatever their religion and from wherever they come from, have a vote. Unlike most Muslim countries.

There is a documentary entitled ‘Hebron’ on YouTube. If you don’t believe that Israel is operating an apartheid system, watch it, and then decide.

jeaux90 · 24/09/2024 18:46

Spoonz · 24/09/2024 18:33

To those with a problem with OP visiting Israel, do you realise you are playing into the hands of Hamas and Hezbollah in their aim to delegitimise the state of Israel, the world’s only Jewish state? Hope you all enjoy your jollies to Dubai and Turkey (nothing to see there hey). Anyone visit the US during the early 2000s?

Well quite! And I just bloody love the fact what happened in October has now been spun round. Israel is fighting to get the hostages back but it's them that need to compromise.

And quite frankly if my child had been kidnapped by terrorists I'd expect my government to do anything to get them back. ANYTHING!

No. I am not Jewish.

Im just sick of the duplicitous double standards.

I've lived and worked out in the Middle East, some of those regimes are bloody terrifying.

OP go, you do not need to justify visiting a democratic country.

People that take their holidays in the UAE etc should hang their heads in shame though.

blackcherryconserve · 24/09/2024 18:46

Greywhippet · 24/09/2024 18:39

So you agree that the Israeli govt is operating an apartheid system? Just not that the Israeli government is committing genocide

No she didn't agree that Israel is operating an apartheid system. And you are showing your ignorance as Israel is a democracy where Israelis, whatever their religion and from wherever they come from, have a vote. Unlike most Muslim countries.

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