To think people shouldn't have sex with people unless you would both be happy and able to raise children together?

I understand that, I think being very young and dealing with it must be very different to being a fully grown adult. BTW, never said I regretted it, it was the right decision and the one I would make again but it was a very formative experience and I just think it is being suggested very flippantly here, where in reality it should be a last resort.
I am a huge advocate of long acting contraception in addition to condoms particularly for the young.

"I think a lot of people on this thread are underestimating the impact of abortion on a woman’s mental health"

For some women yes. For many others no impact at all. And for many others a bit of sadness, but an understanding that it's the best course of action. Scaremongering is not a good thing.

Cute but not all children who have been abandoned by their birth father is as a result of not saving themselves.
Mum and dad can be married for years and go onto have a baby.
Sometimes men are triggered by pregnancy and just walk. It's possible it's a psychological issue but midwives do ask questions to the dad in the assessment and note that domestic violence is increased during this time.
Others find that they just don't have it in them to be part of their child's life if they are disabled. The responsibility of keeping a child safe and we'll is challenging for most but when they come with health conditions which land them in hospital a lot, some adults just cannot do it.

It’s almost like sex is pleasurable and people enjoy doing it or something..

The whole topic of this thread seems as silly to be as saying if you should never drink alcohol unless you’re happy to have liver failure.

For some people it will be, for some it won’t. My friend and I had abortions in our late 30s and early 40s and it was a practical decision that neither of us regretted. It’s not a universal experience but it’s not a rare one either.

Indeed.

I'm not sure why people are criticising women for having kids with bad 'uns.

The reality is that more and more women are refusing to, but it's going to take time.

I imagine we'll end up going the same way as Japan, Italy and South Korea in terms of birthrates.

Instead, why not accept and organise society around women having children without permanent, live-in partners? That's what we get, anyway, so why not be open about it? Boost child-maintenance, sack 50/50, boost childcare, make more opportunities for flexible working etc. Make life liveable for women. Accept that most of us are going to be mothers.

Aibu to think it is nothing but love and kindness to tell our sons and daughters to save it for a good person in a mutually loving, stable, permanent relationship?

Good people can change, no relationship ever comes with a guarantee

I agree with you. I don’t think we should tell young people that if they use contraception everything will be fine, because contraception is unreliable. For boys this is especially important because they only have control over condoms, which are obviously one of the less reliable forms of contraception and because they don’t get to decide what happens if the contraception fails.

The obvious conclusion is that heterosexual, fertile people should ideally only have sex in the context of a committed relationship or with someone they’d be happy to co-parent with.

Men are perfectly capable of getting themselves on the BC, so why do you put it all on the woman, like she could force him to come register the birth anyway, especially if it benefited him not to be? When are men going to be held to the same level of responsibility as women?

Urgh blame everyone and everything for people who abandon their children 🙄 instead of the people who are actually abandoning them

My disabled child was planned he was still ditched by his so called father and we were married too

So we go back to a Victorian situation where families are forced to stay together in utter misery, to no-one's benefit. Children see abusive relationships and think they are normal, and the whole ghastly cycle perpetrates itself for ever.

Why would anyone think that is a good idea?

@Jjiillkkf "Contraception fails and are abortions particularly something we would hope our children get the joyful experience of in their lifetimes?"

No. But we would hope that our daughters have easy, quick non judgemental
access to essential medical care.

Absolutely not. No responsibility sex is the best sort, I wouldn’t have missed that era of my life for anything.

Oh, are we morally postulating this morning? I haven’t even had my coffee.

The current birthrate suggests that women in this country have got the hang of birth control. It is society’s expectation that women should settle down with the men they fancy that is a problem. If women threw back the bad ones after sex, there wouldn’t be an issue.

I agree op. More recreational sex has led to more abortion and a good deal more unwanted babies too. The legalisation of abortion has unexpectedly brought about way more recreational sex and way way more unwanted pregnancies than was anticipated. This system isn’t working and we need to rethink our attitudes to heterosexual sex. Afaic homosexuality is perfectly fine because that doesn’t lead to unwanted babies, nor does it lead to horrible family dynamics where the mother and father hate each other. We’re failing children.

And 'we' are ttc, why?

Several posts each week from mothers along the lines of 'I'm currently pregnant with dc2. I have a 2 year old. My husband works 100 hours a week and does no housework or childcare. Things haven't been great since dc1 was born. We've been arguing lots'. How the fuck can you even get in the mood to have sex with such arseholes!

The goady threads are starting earlier every day.

Just because I don't want children doesn't mean I don't deserve intimacy.

It's a somewhat ridiculous leap to suggest that anyone wants their child to experience an abortion. The vast majority of adults are able to use contraception correctly and avoid unwanted pregnancies.

Do you think those who wish to remain childfree should never have sex? One of the benefits of being childfree is the free time to have plenty of sex...

OK 2 people have sex the women gets pregnant, they are made to stay together because she is pregnant. Sounds great in a normal working relationship

So they split and he wants 50/50 and she will go sure fine?

Or is responsibility 'give me money and go away I don't want you as a parent or if i allow it dictated on my terms'

So if it is not the above what is the actual answer?

So he really wanted to have the 4th child?

1. Too many women set the bar far too low for men. And it’s women that bear the risks of pregnancy and child rearing.
2. There is a magical piece of paper that legally joins two people, making it harder for one to completely run away from responsibilities. It’s not perfect by a long shot, and I’d like to see more enforcement of consequences for avoidance. But it’s more than a lot of women seem to think they’re worth. Why?

I think a lot of people on this thread are underestimating the impact of abortion on a woman’s mental health.
Yes I was only 17 and yes I had all the counselling I could have but it has had a massive impact.